Official Release of EEC’s GT3 Mod Called Off

Some interesting news developing in the greater ISI-based sim modding community today. A few days ago, we ran a piece on a GT3 mod for Game Stock Car Extreme built by the European Endurance Center and refined by 4Chan for their own public GT3 series. We praised the overall quality of the mod, as well as the edits made by 4Chan to make the mod ready for online league racing (such as one locked tire compound, BoP fixes, and a locked front splitter), but noted that the cars are a bit too planted, especially at a track with a notoriously rough surface. They do feel in line with the same cars found in RaceRoom Racing Experience’s ADAC GT Masters packs, but in my personal opinion they felt a touch too simple compared to what I’d expect out of a modern GT3 car.  It is entirely possible that maybe I’m just good or nailed the setup out of the box, so keep that in mind when trying it out for yourself.

As there are a fair amount of people who view this site, the guys who built the mod (again, 4Chan only refined it) caught wind that the 4Chan version had gone into circulation.

1438343424524The team straight up called off the entire release, instead bragging that they would openly taunt followers of their Facebook page with screens of the newly-cancelled mod. What’s interesting is that before we ran the article, the European Endurance Center guys already knew 4Chan were tweaking their mod for their own public release, and they were okay with it. These guys were fully aware 4Chan is a huge public forum, bigger than reddit, and if 4Chan happened to put their version of the EEC GT3 mod out first, it would spread like wildfire. Therefore, this butthurt has seemingly come out of nowhere. 1438343913723And the 4Chan users have an explanation as to why the EEC guys have suddenly switched sides and gotten booty blasted over a third party release of their mod. It might be better than what they themselves could put out.

physicsThe captures are a lot to go through, but outline 4Chan’s main arguments for why the European Endurance Center had been so angry about the revised version of the mod getting uploaded onto public forums – 4Chan basically finished the mod for them.

A guy I’m on good terms with from the 4Chan crew has revealed to me that he’s managed to get his hands on legitimate GT3 data from not one but two GT3 teams campaigning entirely different cars, and has the photos to back it all up. You’d be surprised at how many guys within the world of auto racing actively indulge in racing sims during their spare time, and are happy to help out even the lowliest of mod teams because they’re well aware of how integral the third party add-on community is to sim racing. 4Chan offered to give the EEC team all the data they had from the two real-world teams willing to help out, and were promptly rejected by what appears to be an egotistical, childish mod team. The data was of course implemented into 4Chan’s release instead.

Also implemented were working pit stops, proper dampers, proper control arms, a fixed front wing, a fixed set of tires for league racing, and a working rear diffuser. So not only had 4Chan implemented real-world data into the mod with some degree of success, they also fixed bugs the actual mod team couldn’t fix and prepared the package for league racing.

GSC 2015-07-28 16-49-04-01So what you’re looking at with this whole story is that the European Endurance Center were totally fine with 4Chan making a spinoff of their GT3 mod for the Automotive board’s public GT3 league, until 4Chan’s first public version actually came out and blew the doors off what the original mod team was able to put together. As a result, the EEC basically gave up.

Preliminary testing results from my Walk Racing teammate Guus Verver have come in, and obviously 4Chan’s going to update the thing at some point before their season starts; hopefully we’ll inform y’all of a new version that includes templates so more leagues can start up and get in on the action.

1438278617943Those still curious about the mod can grab it HERE.

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52 thoughts on “Official Release of EEC’s GT3 Mod Called Off

      1. Way to ruin a good thing for no good reason. Faggot. Go hold a knife to your mom’s throat again, maybe this time the cops will take you out like they should have the first time you cunt.

        Liked by 1 person

  1. Also…
    “As a result, the EEC basically gave up.”

    You know, that’s really the only explanation that makes sense. I was having a hard time understanding why they reacted like that.

    Add in rejecting the gt3 data…. I feel pretty stupid for listening to them at all.

    Like

    1. Would it also make you feel pretty stupid to find out you’re reading a blog written by someone who has spent time in a mental institution? Because you are. Don’t take anything this retard says seriously, he’s just trying to cause butthurt for the sake of it.

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      1. For some reason I can’t reply to your post, James, but since when is posting facts ad hominem (way to edit your other post with that phrase so that it doesn’t look like you just used it twice in a row btw, smooth mooth brah) or admitting defeat? Or are you just grasping at straws like always?

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      2. Nope, doesn’t concern me in the least. Don’t even care if it’s true or not.

        I no longer respect EEC. They had their chance to logically explain their side and instead went off on an emotional tangent.

        Case closed imo.

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  2. Sad that you manage to post it even more wrong…
    Nobody is mad because “thye made it better”. Specially because they didn’t. We have real data and explanations from a race car engineer with 30 years in the industry. We have a real race car driving using our physics to prepare himself for 24 hour races and he always said the car behaved like the real thing, and that was back when the mod was still in GTR2 that didn’t allow us to use everything we had access.


    Moving to GSC allowed Uli to implement some car reactions. Specially when you are pushing the car above its limits (overdriving?). And you can see it in the description people in the trash of internet aka “4chan” did.
    Also no, we didn’t know it. One of the forum members knew and did NOT tell us and we are trying to find out why so wt could at least prevent those guys from getting the latest version of the mod.
    You know… just because it’s 4chan does not mean everyone visits it. I for sure don’t.
    First time I’ve seen this site here. And I thought it was pretty cool. Would be better to have a polie and decent reaction from you James, but instead of talking to people in the forum to see what happened you went ahead and wrote this. Not only enough reuploaded the mod. Well… feel sorry for people like this.
    I still hope Daniel will change his mind and release the mod for offline use. It is a damn beautiful mod with more than 200 cars…

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Btw pics above are from Jens Richter. I guess his config does not allow you to see it. Scroll down in his pics and you can see him not only driving, but saying the job was facinating and even checking his data with our physics on MoTeC.
      Well enough said on it all. I only drive online and will have access to this anyway. Happy for contributing with this awesome job. But sad for those that can’t race online and won’t have access to this now.

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      1. Thanks for taking the time to at least write something worth reading from the EEC side.

        I don’t see this as an explanation for their behavior, particularly if the EEC mod is potentially going to be significantly better.

        Usually, people will take as many data samples as they can get. Jens Richter’s involvement is very interesting, but there’s still a lot of gaps in the explanation for how things reached this point from the EEC perspective. Richter’s experience does not invalidate all other data, although that seems to be the answer for why the offered data was not accepted.

        Meanwhile, James has an explanation that fits the actions of EEC.

        As I said before, if the official version isn’t released eventually, then there’s nothing supporting EEC’s claims besides words.

        If you’re willing to explain or refute a couple of these aspects, I’m listening.

        “Also no, we didn’t know it.” That’s important. Is it possible that the 4chan guys got permission from a singular member and didn’t know it hadn’t been disclosed to the rest of the team? There’s a complete divergence in that regard, so it’s either confusion or dishonesty in one way or another.

        I don’t visit 4chan either. Regardless, they still get a ton of traffic, even to obscure topics/’boards’.

        I haven’t heard anyone from EEC refute the point about gt3 team data being offered and rejected. Can you weigh in on that?

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      2. Seems like you think you are playing with kids “my toy is better than yours so take mine and I take yours”
        If you don’t believe us, people that are working on this mod for more than 2 years… well that’s your own problem.

        Funny enough every moder that lived same situation Daniel is facing understand his situation and actually support him.
        It’s also funny that 4chan for sure has “real data” but we don’t. lol
        As I said: it’s not my loss. I only race online and we have a decent drivers base + friends that lead other online forums.
        Nuff said. God bless you. Have a good day.

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      3. Fair enough.

        Sounds like both groups may have some pretty good data. Wish it was a collaboration instead of conflict.

        Thanks for following up. Although it doesn’t mean much, you certainly have my respect.

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      4. William, 4chan actually has real data, at least for the Viper GT3. Earlier this year I went to the racing shop of Team Raceart, a Dutch ViperGT3 racing team, and measured out the whole suspension geometry for a Viper GT3 mod in Assetto Corsa (which is not out yet, sadly). I gave that data to a 4chan user (Von Moltke), because he was the person actually involved in the Viper mod, I was simply asked to gather the data because I live close to Team Raceart (~1 hour). I suppose this was the data that you guys were offered and refused to take into consideration?

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      5. @Sev I don’t know. That’s up to our physic guy. Maybe he had data to use, one of the guys that race with us worked in that team (if I’m not mistaken) but I’m not sure how much or if he got any data and gave. I was not editing the physics. Or he was just tired of updating. As I said we’ve been working and using on this for 2 years (2 and a half actually) and not only in GT3, we also have LMP and GTE physics that are great.

        @All others, everything EEC expected was some respect it was ALWAYS promised the mod would go public. We trusted some new guys that said they’d like ot race with us and test the mod. One of them got it and sent to people without our permission. This is stealing in my book.
        Also don’t say they “finished” EEC work… the full mod is 2bg has 230+ cars and 11 more GT3 models. Maybe in the day these people defending this attitude actually start working on a mod (even with models from other games) putting them in the same or even higher quality than what Daniel/Uli did and someone steal it and say “they finished it” you’ll understand what it is. Or maybe not, considering this kind of attitude and that it comes from people that need to lie and hide their names who knows… I bet all their job is stolen from others.

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    1. One last thing: they did NOT fix anything. As posted before: they managed to get the latest version of the mod that had all stuff fixed. The proof is the file dates, exactly the same from Daniel, and a small bug that never appeared in previous versions is also in “their” upload.
      Looks like you really just want some attention in the site heh…

      Like

      1. Well, what information does James have to work with?

        That’s part of the problem. There’s not much to go on and only a singular public version.

        It’s easy to say that their fixes are simply EEC’s work. It should be pretty easy to prove and I would take the effort if it was my ‘stolen’ content.

        That said, mentioning the unique bug doesn’t really support the claim that their version is simply EEC’s with removed credits.

        Are you guys sure you aren’t looking at similar, independent resolutions to the same problems? Incredibly unlikely, I know.

        It would also be pretty easy for EEC to claim that the 4chan work is theirs. By releasing first, anything they may or may not have fixed/added can be represented as ‘original’ EEC.

        Quite a puzzle from my perspective.

        Like

    2. Glad that you mentioned models.

      How did you guys do those models? They seem to be really really good. As in really amazing. But some look like they’re from another game. Hopefully you didn’t just import models from other games because that might be illegal.

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  3. E123, I appreciate your desire to comprehensively understand the entire situation. Yes, Daniels decision to withhold the mod from public release was abrupt. I fear the only way for someone outside EEC to understand the emotion attached would be to review the hundreds of forum posts in dozens of categories at EEC that deal with this Mods development over the past year. Someone in an earlier post (different topic) outlined the mod looked the same as the V3.0 GTR2 mod. That’s because the developer is one and the same. That gives you a timeline on its development and therefore the amount of work involved. We can table the argument over physics, it’s mute and subjective to argue EEC experts or 4Chan experts are better. The bottom line is the content was stolen from EEC. That internal betrayal causes pain. Criticism of unfinished work and totally false accusations (EEC abandoning the mod, etc) also cause pain. But what really gets (at least me) angry is the lack of respect for the development team at EEC and that the Sim community would side with thieves instead of developers. Imagine working something for almost a year. Something you know the Sim community will enjoy. Then that in-process creation is stolen (not leaked), edited, criticized, and claimed by others. 4chan has the bandwidth to make their version the loudest. It’s been very “rational”. Ask yourself why the group from EEC have not been so. Which side was vested in this mods development? Who did the work? Who was still working to provide a quality product and had the integrity and pride to withhold release until it met that standard? It would have been one thing for someone to totally change the physics to suit their “taste” on an authorized released mod. That happens all the time and there is nothing wrong with it as long as credits are given to originators. That’s not what happened here. What happened here was wrong. So the new link to the file above includes stolen property. Over to you guys on how you handle/support that.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. If you’re telling us to stand with developers over thieves you’re telling us to kick EEC to the curb because most of the core content of the mod is models stolen from real developers.

      “Imagine working something for almost a year. Something you know the Sim community will enjoy. Then that in-process creation is stolen (not leaked), edited, criticized, and claimed by others.”
      Hm. The guys ripping licensed content from commercial games then insisting on ownership of them and how they did all the work are not claiming any else’s work for their own but the dudes using the models and clearly saying they didn’t touch anything but physics are heinously claming it as their own. Sounds legit.

      Look don’t use first party content from other games then lecture anyone on the sanctity of IP ownership.

      Like

    2. Well, I can understand where you and the team are coming from. When things get personal, sometimes ‘logical’ reactions should not be expected. It really is an incredibly ambitious project.

      I will just sit back and observe from here on out and wait at least a couple of months before I install this.

      Doesn’t make any real difference, but I will at least give EEC the benefit of the doubt while I’m sitting on the fence.

      Best of luck with your future projects and I hope you don’t have to deal with this sort of situation again, regardless of who is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’.

      Like

  4. Few things:
    1) James thanks for screenshotting my angry, mistyped post lel

    2) No, EEC hadn’t created a fixed version that 4chan is taking credit for – any crash bug fixes came downstream from EEC, but anything else to do with the cars themselves was fixed by a team from 4chan

    3) EEC may have a race engineer telling them their shit smells golden, but the 4chan team has actual data from actual GT3 race teams (yes, teams, i.e., more than one), one team of which actually let a representative from
    4chan go down to their shop and poke, prod, ask questions and get them to measure things. So 4chan’s version is based off of accurate real world data from actual running in 2015 GT3 cars and you can’t get much more accurate and realistic than that

    4) No, nobody ‘stole’ anything from EEC. An EEC member gave the beta files to some people on 4chan so he could play it with them, and some of these members were so upset at the condition the mod was in, they decided to fork the mod and create their own version on top of the EEC basework. No-one was trying to claim other people’s work as their own, and no-one was shimmying into EEC headquarters in the dead of night and dodging laser beams to smuggle out the beta so it could be released under someone elses name. There is no theft here, just a software fork – something that happens endlessly without drama in most software and mods, only eec have gotten their pants in a twist over it for whatever reason.

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    1. And frankly it’s the 4chan guys who should feel upset – they’ve spent weeks refining the EEC basework to suit their own purposes, only for a beta to be released and EEC to start yelling “your work is crap and none of it is your work anyway, you stole it from us! Wah wah wah wah!”

      Having to deal with a sim racing community that’s so insanely unrational is enough to make sensible modders just walk away from the keyboard

      Like

  5. I get a feeling EEC will become the next SRD, if you know what I mean. 😉

    “2 years” of work just stopped like that ?, pfft nigga please, they’ll whore out ‘sneak peak pics’, someone else from 4chan will get in their circlejerk, eventually get the updates, and eventually leak those too, it’s happened plenty of times before, this is the Internet after all.

    Otherwise, 4chan’s mod is, like James said, very good, and could be great with some more tweaks and balancing, and I’m looking forward to trying a season with /ovg/ using it for /ovgt3/.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. just bullshit -.- a guy from eec gave the mod? so then theres no reason to ask the modder himself if you can work on it or share it? you wanted to work together with eec? why never someone on eec got a message about it? and because you respect the eec guys you changed the mods naming and deleted the credits inside the files? removing credits and renaming files is claiming it as your work! after the posting on facebook you posted even more shit against the guys who created this mod instead trying to calm down it all. great way….. now a lot people are very happy, waited long time for this mod to get nothing now. ok they can download your version but even with this they just get 30% instead of 100 and a lot more stuff. thumbs up

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    1. Credits were taken out and files renamed because those files were rewritten from the ground up with new data….and EEC did get messaged, they turned the offer of co-operation down flat.
      >We’re only getting 30% of the mod
      Kek, sure thing keep telling yourself that.

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  7. Pretty sad that after all this these people keep saying this stuff instead of recognize they made a mistake and apologize.
    Either it’s the owner of this site pretending to be members of the group (from what I heard it’s possible).
    Or the group is a lot worse than I thought.

    Either way feel sorry for people like this. Daniel should really take the same strategy we had when the mod for GTR 2 leaked. Worked just fine.

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    1. “Pretty sad that after all this these people keep saying this stuff”
      That’s because it’s true, son. All the paranoia and butthurt from your end won’t change that.

      Like

      1. Not a matter of being true or not. 😉
        Not so hard to understand… or shouldn’t be…
        There is no paranoia or butthurt btw. Try to make a mod of your own working on physics, improving models (even if it comes from other games) and so on at the same time you try to grow a online league. And then let it be stolen by others that did what this group did.
        I guess it’s waste of time to discuss with you. Can’t even show your name, probably one of the gimme gimme people that never touched a mod.
        Well, moving on. Hoping the same strategy used on GTR2 mod will be done now so only the trolls lose and the player base that worth to help wins.

        Like

      2. If you still think that the mod was “stolen” then it’s you who is not worth discussing with any further. The mod was leaked, and then forked. That’s the end of it. And guess what, working on physics from virtually the ground up and growing an online league is what these other people did by forking the EEC mod for their own use! And your opinion doesn’t become any more valid just because it has a name by it, it’s like you don’t understand the internet.

        But hey, what do I know, I’m just enjoying a GT3 mod doing casual races with 20+ people without incident.

        Like

  8. Why the hell do you name and have a description on a site like this one? Indeed this is “The worst site you could possibly visit for Sim Racing news.”

    You guys here are ignorant asswipes.

    Also, this “refined” mod is just a few words (credits) taken off the files. If you think the physics weren’t good enough, try making your own. I’d like to see how scratch made physics would be if you didn’t have a race engineer helping out.

    Whoever leaked the mod, fuck you. You know that you weren’t supposed to give it out. Now you hurt a whole community because we’ll only have half the GT3 models that were planned.

    Like

    1. “Also, this “refined” mod is just a few words (credits) taken off the files. If you think the physics weren’t good enough, try making your own. I’d like to see how scratch made physics would be if you didn’t have a race engineer helping out.”

      Nice job being misinformed. The credits were taken out because the physics WERE redone from scratch, using data from two real life race teams.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Bullshit. Where’s your proof? Enlighten us as to which, if any, racing teams actually helped with the “scratch redone” physics.

        Like

      2. Scroll up and read the comment by Sev. That’s where they come from. And if you drove both versions of the mod, within a lap of leaving the pits you’d see and feel that the physics have been heavily reworked. This isn’t rocket science.

        Like

  9. Yeah there’s a few of us at EEC that weren’t in the drivers group and were waiting patiently for the finished mod, we’re now fucked as far as getting it. No public release means even those of us on the site aren’t getting it either.

    Like

  10. You can’t steal a mod. A mod of a mod is still just a mod. Why is it only sim racing gets into this kind of ridiculous anger over other people trying to improve the experience. I have never seen anything like this in other sorts of games. Take STALKER for example, all the best mods are forks and combinations of forks of other mods. Everyone is just trying to get the best experience possible, instead of getting mad about other people modifying your work, take what’s good from their work too and make it better.

    EEC isn’t even the worst of it, there are mod groups in sim racing that will even get upset when someone else hosts a mirror of the mod. Because paying for server bandwidth is such a privilege? Its goddamn ridiculous. Normal people would just add the alternate link to their site in case their own file server has trouble.

    Like

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