You Have Selected “No.”

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Those who rely on more mature publications to receive their sim racing news are well aware that the gang over at RaceDepartment have published a series of interviews with major players within the sim racing genre throughout the spring of 2016. Opening with a two-part interview featuring key figures from Kunos Simulazioni detailing their future plans for Assetto Corsathe little Italian racing simulator that could –  RaceDepartment have now shifted gears and recently published a lengthy interview with Tim Wheatley of Image Space Incorporated. Long thought to be the pinnacle of modern PC racing simulators, rFactor 2 is held in especially high regard by the veteran virtual drivers among us – who claim the game’s overall simulation value is second to none despite any tangible following.

However, after skimming through the interview with Tim Wheatley, it appears the fans who praise rFactor 2 have more faith in the game than the developers themselves. As others on Reddit have already pointed out, the overall demeanor displayed by Mr. Wheatley throughout the interview is concerning to say the least. With a comically small active community, and no tangible plans to compete with what other sims are offering, the future of rFactor 2 looks incredibly grim.

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Tim’s responses to even the most basic of questions read as if Bart Simpson has fired up Lee Carvello’s Putting Challenge. Will rFactor 2 see a switch to DirectX 11 in the future? No. Are there any plans to implement Oculus Rift support like virtually every other racing sim? No. Is there a release date for the Nissan GT500, a car teased all the way back in 2013? No. Will you add any new content to the game? No, only third party content we’ve outsourced to other people. Will we see dirt or marble pickup on tires? No. Will we be able to adjust traction control as part of the car’s setup? No.

There’s basically not a lot to get excited for in regards to rFactor 2; the sim will remain in it’s current state until people move on to something else – whenever something else comes along. And ISI doesn’t really care either way, which is a bit strange given how these guys essentially created the entire modern sim racing line-up in one way or another.

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Yet the final part of the interview generates some extremely interesting answers from Tim, displaying that the team at Image Space Incorporated haven’t really taken an objective look at how their title has performed, and where they should be going if they don’t want all their effort spent on the project to go to waste. While simulators such as Assetto Corsa, Project CARS, and DiRT Rally have managed to reel in a massive amount of customers, rFactor 2 is essentially a ghost town for multiple different reasons.

Wheatley is asked to share a piece of exclusive news, just for the readers of RaceDepartment. Tim responds by saying they’re seriously looking at the idea of paid mods:

We are looking into possibility of paid mods as part of rF2. I’ve mentioned this a few times but it’s getting serious now. There’s no reason someone shouldn’t be able to give the community what it wants when developers aren’t able to.

This is absurd. For starters, basically nobody has bothered to create any mods for rFactor 2, because the platform has been deemed too difficult for all but a handful of people. In reality, most mod teams that spent years designing projects for rFactor, instead moved to Assetto Corsa as it allowed them to quickly convert already finished projects into a platform with a large player base – ensuring their mod would be downloaded and enjoyed by as many people as possible. Sim Racing community members believe rFactor 2 is this extremely well-built modding platform – and they’re right that the physics engine is objectively better – but the scene just hasn’t exploded in the way that propelled the original into cult classic status. Sure, the group over at UnitedRacingDesign have pumped out a mixture of exceptional unlicensed payware mods, but aside from the IMSA Toyota Celica and a few good tracks, there simply isn’t a modding scene for a game intended to be a modding platform.

And Wheatley thinks that somehow payware will save this game? Yeah, no. The only press rFactor 2 has gotten in the past year outside of sim racing news outlets is the atrocious display by Formula E drivers using a privately commissioned MAK-Corp mod. If Formula E paid for this and immediately dropped it after one race in favor of a much more complete title, what makes ISI think your average sim racer will pay for this?

Next, we find ourselves reading another interesting quote from Tim Wheatley, this time regarding how the title has performed on Steam.

I guess the biggest recent event is Steam, and we are pretty happy with how well the transition to Steam has gone. We encourage people to look into the Workshop as we continue to find new ways to make it a bigger part of rF2!

The Steam transition didn’t go well, so I’m not sure which world these guys are living in, but it certainly isn’t ours. rFactor 2’s launch on Steam was a demonstrable disaster, with hardcore sim racers rushing across message boards far and wide to warn others specifically not to activate the product on Steam for a plethora of reasons. The pricing model confused people, content packages were automatically installed without consent, and widespread crashing issues were reported. When the dust finally settled and Image Space Incorporated ironed out many of the bugs plaguing the Steam release, raw data indicated rFactor 2 was the least successful modern racing sim ever released on Steam. This is not an old picture, this data comes from March 20th, 2016.

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On what planet are those numbers considered a success? How is this not a blatant sign to change the ideology fueling the development of your product? Four games of the six games on this list are powered by ISI technology, but the game developed by ISI themselves – intended to be a showcase of everything the team has learned and achieved – isn’t even a blip on the radar. Even worse, when a news outlet comes along and asks if you’re doing anything to keep your title relevant, you answer “no” to everything they throw at you – and then expect people who aren’t playing your game to start paying for mods that aren’t being made.

You’re right Smudi, how in the fuck is there virtually zero outrage over this? ISI has basically thrown in the towel in the most public way possible.

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188 thoughts on “You Have Selected “No.”

    1. The physics of Assetto Corsa are not of simulation value, when you compare it to the way a racing driver and racing team and even vehicle manufacturers can use rFactor and rFactor 2’s physics to develop their cars and their drivers in a way that provides accurate data which they can rely on to use at races.

      To give you an example. All our race team clients and even our series clients, they don’t only use rFactor for track familiarization. They also use it to test setup data before they go to an event, they use it to test potential new part data, by developing new brakes or new engine performances and testing it in the game before they actually commit to building it in real life. rF1 and rF2 provide far higher accuracy for those things than any other simulation on the market. When it comes to Assetto Corsa, their game is marketed for a set audience which covers the Semi-Arcade side. When I drive rF1 or rF2, I’m always in a serious state of mind, I can’t just go out on the track and run a few laps. It is too simulation based and I treat it as such. I work on my setups, I push to find every tenth I can throughout a lap. I analyze too much. When I play Assetto Corsa, I can easily go in, pick a car and track, chill back and drive When using my Xbox360 controller and not give a care. The physics seem very much like Forza Motorsport 5, a console game physics HOWEVER, Kunos has done a great job for the simcade fans, but cut down to the wire, rFactor 2’s physics engine is by far the most simulation based physics engine using real life aero and physical data that no other title has come close to.

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      1. Ahh the sim racing forum equivalent of the “Hitler” tag. Call a game simcade because you can drive it with a controller…lol. If it’s not difficult it can’t be a sim amiright?…lol.

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    2. When you enter real data to rFactor 2, it works like real life, it’s not the case for Assetto Corsa, you always have to use workarounds and substitute models 🙂

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    3. So the alternative is Project Garbage and Ashitty Cornhole? The little autist kiddies that flock to those pseudo sims can’t drive for shit. I’ll stick with the dead RF2 that I race online everyday against good drivers.

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      1. When you enter real data to rFactor 2, it works like real life, it’s not the case for Assetto Corsa, you always have to use workarounds and substitute models 🙂

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      1. He truly saw the light and continued to play AC, 6.7 hrs AC during last two weeks, 0 hours rF2 during last two weeks LOL!

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      2. A few words about Assetto Corsa’s physics limitations.

        Modern openwheelers can be very stiff … i mean extremely stiff, springs and ARBs (dampers as well)! and Assetto Corsa has engine limitations that doesn’t allow using high suspension rates (causes weird bugs)!

        Interactive aerodynamics physics is a must for an openwheeler, rear aero depends on what’s happening at the front and the rear not only the rear! and vice versa (interaction between front wing and diffuser for example)

        Tyre model is not well explained and needs more variables to be added, to get realistic grip and temperatures/pressure behaviour! You can’t cook accurate slicks with it.

        Lack of setup options possibilities in general

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  1. When you enter real data to rFactor 2, it works like real life, it’s not the case for Assetto Corsa, you always have to use workarounds and substitute models 🙂

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  2. When you enter real data to rFactor 2, it works like real life, it’s not the case for Assetto Corsa, you always have to use workarounds and substitute models 🙂

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  3. Shilling aside, something that might be quite relevant…

    @ISITrackTeam on Twitter (that @rFactor2 keeps retweeting) seems like it’s on eternal development; they keep teasing their work without any clear, proper release information of the teased tracks.

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  4. How dare you insult the name of our most precious SIMULATION racing game, rFactor 2! ISI have laid down the foundations of sim racing with their amazing ISImotor engine, and continues to be the undisputed leader in its genre with creation of rFactor 2, the most accurate and realistic racing simulator of ALL TIME. Praise thy sim rFactor 2 for blessing us with the most advanced and realistic racing simulator of all time!

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  5. didn’t bother reading all article, but even do public servers are empty Rfactor 2 shines in leagues.
    VEC has easy 60+ teams of an average of 3drivers/team and now they started other champs in rf2 with that userbase
    GPWVC also has 3-4 rf2 championships with easy 20+ competitive people on the grid
    RD also has sometimes decent turnouts in club events
    The idea is that rf2 is more appreciated under league , honestly me as a casual simracer don’t want to ever again do public server.

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    1. How exactly does this change the fact that it’s a ghost town when compared to competing products in the market? Or that they have a hillarious pricing model? Or that they just admitted they’re pretty much not working on anything but outsourced payed mods?

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  6. rFactor 2 looks like a piece of shit and honestly, doesn’t drive all that great either. Actually, it is rFactor 1 with a live track and some gloomy gunk that is upposed to be rain. And atrocious-looking tracks. It is still around because it has multiplayer features that make it easier for league admins to run multiplayer servers and which are missing from its competitors. But when/if they catch up, rF2 will find its demise in a murky, watery grave, where it should have been placed long ago. It is only because of the weakness of its rivals that it is stil (barely) alive.

    rF2 was dead on arrival, having disappointed so many people, with the exception of the usual fanboys.

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  7. Amongst all the trash and shitposts here, I hope this actually comes through.

    On the forum in response to this interview, there are some very interesting answers from Tim.

    One that really stands out to me is basically how the whole community has responded to sims nowdays.
    Tim mentions that they put heaps of work into improving what the flaws in rF1 were, as well as tech that pushes the simulation genre further towards that goal…of simulating racing. Better and more accurate physics and systems, better feedback, systems to hinder cheating and mismatches online, much better content control, and a much better effort at accurate first party cars to give examples as it were, etc etc. Then he mentions how the userbase just hasn’t embraced it.

    It’s not him pinning anything on the community, but more a reflection of what sim users are looking for today. The “hardcore” market shrinks, and are content with titles that don’t push the boundaries as it were. Or, people are still happy to stick with the old engines and not keep pushing forwards.
    Perhaps seeing such desirable licences in AC is enough to entice people seeing as sims struggle to get the big names.

    Quite poignant when he says something like “the biggest strengths of rf2 are is customisation, open platform, modding ability, and physics accuracy.” Followed up by” the biggest weaknesses in rF2 are it’s customisation, open platform, modding, physics accuracy…”

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    1. The first party cars have been generally not great. Some are horrendously mismodeled like the C6.R and the DW12, and most have terrible physics for a year or two after ISI releases them. Plus they tend to license things nobody gives a shit about like the pigfat GT1 GT-R, wet fish Formula 2, or a Renault Clio.

      Since they made it absurdly difficult to mod for by having a super complicated tire model with nowhere near the necessary documentation for anyone else to figure it out you end up with shit for third party content either so there’s nothing to draw people to the game.

      Why are they surprised?

      Stuff like the package installer, multiplayer, the graphics engine, etc. itself worked so poorly for two or three years that they were more of a downgrade than upgrade from rF1.

      ISI’s efforts to sell rF2 as a game have been pathetic. They just seem to think that if they add new stuff to gMotor and make some random cars and tracks people will line up.

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      1. Well done for totally not getting the point of what he means when saying that.

        Opinions about cars is exactly that, opinions so it is a bit of an odd one.
        Of course, increase the detail and complexity of the systems, you increase the difficulty of creation. But when it comes to getting more advanced with what we simulate, what else is going to happen?
        It does certainty result in modders saying “eff this”. Again, he’s not blaming anyone. He is saying “we set out to improve our simulator and advance it, which could be seen as turning out as a misread of the audience.”

        Seeing people for yonks asking for the old rF1 package system (drag and drop)…not remembering having 5 different rF1 installs and having to keep deleting folders and files. And yet in AC, that is seen as brilliant. Just an example…

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  8. That feel when people fell for the rf2 maymay

    It’s a little confusing how people dickride its physics when ISI cars all released broken and there’s no good mods.

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    1. “It’s a little confusing how people dickride its physics when ISI cars all released broken and there’s no good mods.”

      A broken ISI car, is still superior to the vast amount of finished cars in other sims, ppl “dickride” their physics because they are that good, the cars are good even with missing data, they are still so far ahead of the comp its not funny, the physics was not the point of the article dipshit.

      Ppl like to dick ride AC because its got a ton of road rubbish that all drives the same, with a ton of forza rips… I mean mods, with their mums car included, with their fave fast and furious drift cars, and zero actual useful race features and others like to “dickride” pcars, cause it says its a sim and any moron with 5mins practice can drive it with a pad, therefore it boosts what little ego\confidence they have.

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      1. “and others like to “dickride” pcars, cause it says its a sim and any moron with 5mins practice can drive it with a pad”

        actually is hard to drive pcars with a pad.

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      2. its actually hard to drive pcars even with wheel. Cars unpredictable and grip lvls strange \\\ in rf2 at least u know when u sliding oversteering etc

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  9. I’m not surprised by the no to dx11 exactly. I think they took certain routes with design that make dx11 impractical and possibly never function correctly if they tried to implement it.

    The news about no new non-3rd party official isi content and the nonsense about ‘paid mods’ is pretty concerning.

    We already have some paid mods available. Most of them are not worth it.

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    1. “We already have some paid mods available. Most of them are not worth it.”

      Dodgy arse motherfuckers dont count and shouldnt be counted, ISI made a mistake wording it as such,as a flight and military simmer its standard practice to buy quality “mods”,if they didnt, flight simming would be as sad and depressing as the race sim community, minus the morons that periodically overrun sim racing.

      Third party developers are a reality of developing games today,so is contracting(in any business), why would you hire a team with salaries and benefits etc for one smallish project, mind you if ISI called it DLC they would be attacked adn called greedy, if they called it 3rd party devs they would be called lazy etc, but saying “paid mods” was prob worse of the lot.

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      1. Wasn’t the 40€ for online access supposed to pay for all future content? Some games have season pass for the dlc. ISI made lifetime pass for all future dlc. But if there’s going to be “not rf3” in the future, you’ll need to pay more 40€ for another batch of lifetime pass.

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      2. Yup. The lifetime multiplayer access was their way of a DLC Season Pass. Offering paid DLC would directly contradict that format, but ISI is keen on finding new sources of revenue since despite their very high price, they haven’t garnered enough.

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  10. As much as I’ve supported ISI with rFactor 1 for the past 11 years (And being a modder for 6 of them), they really shot themselves in the face with rF2. Physics wise is good, modding wise is a nightmare. For both modders and especially players who have to download and install those mods.

    Before they disbanded, Bsim team (Yes, Bsimracing was a modding team before being a news outlet aswell) were the author of one of the biggest vaporware mods in racing simulations history. When the rF2 demo was released they were literally the first modders to showcase wip screens of one of their unreleased rF1 cars running in rF2, but they gave up shortly after that because it was simply impossible to mod. Impossible to mod in a decent and non retarded way. Of course they’ll say that people moved on and “life came first”, but it’s just not the entire truth. They weren’t able to do shit, even with all their experience.

    As a modder myself, I would really like to know who’s the autistic ISI developer that thought that retarded modding system would work and would especially be praised by the community. It’s no wonders that aside from few mods nobody cares about even trying to mod it. Most migrated elsewhere, I myself gave up aswell and decided to stick with rF1.

    Point is, if your game is supposed to be a racing simulation with modding support, make the fucking modding actually possible and easy to learn like rF1 and GTR2 were from the start without the need to go through retarded plugins and “mod managers” written with a turd as big as Ian Bell’s bald head hanging around from your asshole.

    It’s a shame, really. Modding community nowadays is stuck with that AC garbage if they want a lot of new mods released everyday.

    “If only”.. Yeah, “if only” my ass, you dipshits. You had a potential competitor for everything and anything else on the market and you fucked it up with your own autism. I love you ISI, I really do. But you handled rF2 like wanking to people from lemonparty.org have sex. A disgrace.

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  11. Rf2 may be a 100% simulation for a car and engineer. But the simulation I feel behind the wheel, the immersion and feel, is rather dull. AC gices me a greater feeling of being in a car, even if tire models and things are not simulated arcade-ish. I think this is what rf2-fanboys refuses to understand.

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    1. It gives you a “greater feeling of being in a car” even though it feels and handles less like a car? Alright….

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      1. “no, it doesn’t feel less like a car.
        Have you ever hopped on a real life car that is in AC as well?”

        Yes, the Abarth 500 lololol

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  12. “who claim the game’s overall simulation value is second to none despite any tangible following”

    I switched my single-racing to pCars and the setup-work is the same and as rewarding as in rF2. Car setups are even more options and it needs a tweak for every turn on some tracks. Certainly i would prefer the hole rf2-options and Multiplayer is more a weak point in pCars, but SMS knows this and have future plans. And they have more and better content than rF2 with all the mostly mediocre mods. The best mod for rF2 is this laserscanned Nordschleife nobody is allowed to show. That´s sad.

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    1. “I switched my single-racing to pCars and the setup-work is the same and as rewarding as in rF2

      I switched my single-racing to pCars and the setup-work is the same and as rewarding as in rF2. Car setups are even more options and it needs a tweak for every turn on some tracks. ”

      No, no it doesnt, if it “feels” that way, thats ignorance on your part , one of the biggest issues with pcars (and AC) is both lack of setup options and the wrong and sometimes outright broken setup results, ffs the tyre heating is completely whacked,you know the thing that tells you results of those setup changes, also keep in mind this is all based on ISI’s older engines, so considering RF1 has these options, it’s difficult to understand how pcars fucked it up.

      “The best mod for rF2 is this laser scanned Nordschleife nobody is allowed to show. That´s sad.”

      Yeah so you are officially on the “dont ask this person for opinions on mods” list,cause if you think thats the best mod rf2 has, thats just so wrong its not even funny.
      ————————————————————————————————————————–

      IF anybody’s wondering why rf2 has so few “participants”, DESPITE its superior features and physics, this comments sections tells the whole story, ignorance, stupidity and a false interest in real track racing, how anybody properly into either sim racing and or real life racing, can look at all sims features and physics side by side and pick anything other than rf2 (iracing because of its system too) as their main goto sim is beyond me, doesnt mean you cant enjoy other sims, but this is the real deal when looking at the nuts and bolts.

      Also how does a story about lack of interest\info from dev suddenly make rf2 features and physics any less than the best according to certain moronic comments?

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      1. “this comments sections tells the whole story, ignorance, stupidity and a false interest in real track racing”
        I’d say most people who do that are playing (or not actually playing, but still shilling it) rf2.

        I wonder hash, do you only find “ignorance, stupidity, false interest” when people talk bad about rf2 but not about other sims, for example AC? Because usually when this comment section turns into a zoo (actually a zoo is better behaved than this comment section sometimes) is always talking bad on AC. Do you not find “ignorance, stupidity, false interest” then? Or you only find “ignorance, stupidity, false interest” when they talk about rf2?

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      2. GT3-class is way better in pCars as well as LMP-classes and there are not even three road cars in rF2. And i want to drive my favorite tracks and only one is missing in pCars: Sebring.

        And i give a shit about all this “better physics” blabla. Differential physics are much better in pCars and most time greyed out in rF2 (WTF?), driving with rain & night i find much more believable and graphics are also a part of a simulation;-)

        If physics are horrible difficult, they are wrong and rain is ridiculous icy and looks like shit.

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      3. You kidding?? “Differential settings are greyed out, wtf!?”
        No shit, some cars don’t have an adjustable setup. Some have a partially adjustable setup…some fully…some even more adjustable than any of our current sims actually allows us to change…

        This is the kind of crap that just grates. “BS, this car has no adjustable gear ratios, poo on you ISI!!” You maybe think it’s because the real car has no fucking adjustable ratios?

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      4. “I wonder hash, do you only find “ignorance, stupidity, false interest” when people talk bad about rf2”

        Fair comment, would seem so, but you dont see hordes of people lining up bashing those sims for their bad graphics, because they would be wrong,thats the equivalent of what the vast amount of comments are like on rf2, there’s one comment just below, complaining how in rf2 some diffs in car setups are grayed out, without the person realising that they are not adjustable in real life, its this kind of stuff that constantly floods most RF2 related comments sections.

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      5. But i expect to change differential-settings in GT3-cars and other modern racecars, but greyed out just ONLY in rF2. But okay, most are mods and we all know, mods are bullshit. That´s the second big disadvantage about rF2. If only the tire physics are awesome (if made proper) and the rest is pure fantasy, this has NO SIMULATION VALUE.

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      1. They fixed the broken SP pretty well and some issues will have to wait for pCars 2 they admit. They have still many (more) people working for pCars 1, the MP is crying for updates and i wouldn´t call this off. It´s a version 1 and most people are playing SP, so this was a higher priority.

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  13. >Posting steam numbers when a large chunk of rF2 users don’t have their game registered on steam
    >Ignoring all the active and popular rF2 leagues going on
    But no, it’s totally dead and unpopular among all. VEC manages to dredge up almost 200 drivers per race because nobody cares about rF2.

    Usual lack of thought we’ve come to expect from PRC.

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    1. ok thats like 300 only..still consider the game is dead..! I have non steam ver and i dont fire it up either..collecting dust on my desktop. Have you heard of Euro truck SIM with 15k players daily.? lol

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      1. Yeah and the millennials play league of legends in their millions too, if you told me that 20 years ago I would’ve laughed my arse off and called you a fool, dont even get me started on the weird obsession you young fellers have with with goat games, opps I meant simulator, hope I didn’t offend anyone there, mediocre sells as long as its shiney.

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      2. Well, some of those millennials playing league of legends, dota2, csgo, make a living out of it professionally.
        There must be a good reason these games attract so many players and generate so much money.

        For sure, we could say those games are like football, that is a big money generator and is loved by millions of people, and then we have other sports that are niche and generate a low revenue.

        I hope that you won’t say all those millions are wrong and stupid, and they should try our real sport/sim. If you do say that, why would your opinion on it be true? Couldn’t those millions who watch and play football, and the millions who watch and play the popular esports have the truth as well?

        Would be kinda pitiful to say that all those millions which play forza are wrong and stupid, and the ones playing rf2 are the enlightened and bearer of the truth.

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      3. Did you just miss Warcraft II completely, Hash? It came out 20 years ago and was hella popular, as was Starcraft. League of Legends is no different in terms of the audience it attracts.

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    2. Sadly what has happened is dozens of leagues shut their doors, and the leftover players usually converge to three different places. I have observed and experienced people just simply leave rF2. The most popular is VEC, which had excellent support so it rightfully attracted even more people.

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  14. rF2 is my favourite sim but I think its dedicated crew of autistic shills puts people off it. Have you ever seen /r/rFactor2 on reddit? Or, as it should be known, /r/WoodeecoukLinksToISITweets

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  15. If the best people can do to convince me to play RF2 is say that the game I already play is actually not as good as I think it is, that’s not getting a sale. Cause there are plenty of ways that RF2’s not as good as that game, and on the whole, 2 wrongs don’t make a sale.

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    1. When I was 13 I used to think Gran turismo was the most super duper realist around (kinda was back in day), but not only did I grow up, my knowledge and interest grew in motorsports that GT was far from being good enough, so I went looking for the ultimate sims,if you just dont have real interest in proper (simulated or real) motorsports, then why would you buy rf2 over say AC or pcars, I agree with you.

      Rf2 is for those ppl that want to “qualify up” to the best possible simulation of their particular interest, I see same thing in flight sims, with many many more people coming to titles like DCS after being fed up and out growing lesser games\sims

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      1. AC is a pretty good simulation, I’ve been around these games long enough to know which issues are real and which ones are just people not having a clue what’s really important to the simulation. When modders say “I can’t make realistic tires in rf2” that’s a huge fuckin red flag. When they say “load sensitivity is wrong, here and here” that’s an actionable issue and you know what? AC fixed it. Nobody could tell the difference, of course, because it wasn’t actually an important issue. But it got fixed anyway.

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      2. A few words about Assetto Corsa’s physics limitations.

        Modern openwheelers can be very stiff … i mean extremely stiff, springs and ARBs (dampers as well)! and Assetto Corsa has engine limitations that doesn’t allow using high suspension rates (causes weird bugs)!

        Interactive aerodynamics physics is a must for an openwheeler, rear aero depends on what’s happening at the front and the rear not only the rear! and vice versa (interaction between front wing and diffuser for example)

        Tyre model is not well explained and needs more variables to be added, to get realistic grip and temperatures/pressure behaviour! You can’t cook accurate slicks with it.

        Lack of setup options possibilities in general

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      3. When you enter real data to rFactor 2, it works like real life, it’s not the case for Assetto Corsa, you always have to use workarounds and substitute models 🙂

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      4. When I was a kid and played Gran Turismo was because I liked cars so I got the game… in fact it came bundled with the playstation.
        So I played it for hours because was fun, had a great career, kept me entertained for many hours.

        I never once had to worry about “wow this is the best ever, best graphics, best simulation”. I played it a lot because it was that good, for me, for what I understood of fun.

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    2. Sad that you would let yourself be influenced in that way, especially when the demo is there to form your own opinion on the software without others views getting in the way.

      And if I’m fucking honest, it is sad to see the way that people react and get set into camps with “their” Dev, refusing to even consider the other software.
      If it came to it, I would honestly think some people would be happy to see their “rival” devs go under and stop producing software. That’s really fucked up in this small genre.

      Like

      1. Well yeah, the demo covers the basics pretty well – this is how the graphics will run on my PC, how it’ll feel on my wheel… (at least for the demo content, can’t say if it’s representative) but I can’t mod all the content I want on my own, or play multiplayer by myself, other people have to like the game too or it’s pretty much a nonstarter as far as buying the thing.

        Like

  16. When you enter real data to rFactor 2, it works like real life, it’s not the case for Assetto Corsa, you always have to use workarounds and substitute models 🙂

    Like

  17. I wish they would just kill the game game ,I spoke to him Thu email,even I can see the future of simracing I’s the online structure that iracing has.
    He has no plans for that,and from his interview he has lost all interest,so they will not do anything more to the SIM but want to earn money of someone else doing paid mods.
    What a joke,just go now please Tim and shrivel up and die,what clowns.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Realise what you are saying, please…you seem to be quite happily wanting to see one of the few sim developers “shrivel and die”.

      Here, in this tiny genre, with these amazingly skilled code and physics engineers in each of the Dev studios, working their butts off to give us the most advanced racing simulations usable on a home PC…and you would gleefully want one to disappear.

      This shit is depressing, seriously this has to be one fucked up group of people. I would say enthusiasts, but it seems like noone gives two shits about the actual racing of cars nowdays.

      Like

      1. It was meant to say cry,ducking phone.
        It’s just pathetic,how on earth do they expect there product to be successful when they do hardly anything to draw folks in.
        The bar has been set so high by iracing,(the online part)that if you want to compete you have to offer something similar or better.
        Rf2 is just dead in the water,it’s a crying shame,the models are the best in the genre but the actual overall package is no different to any other console game,actually it’s worse than console games.

        Like

      2. Yes I agree the devs are amazing,buteach company had someone calling the shots and just not delivering what the community wants.
        I can’t count the amount of times I’ve heard people say.
        Just imagine if Rf2 had racing’s online structure,or imagine if iracig and isi merge,isi do the physics ffb and tire models while iracing do the content and online.
        We can only dream,

        Like

  18. The problem is the community itself. Over the years people only talk about what they THINK what a sim should be, without any real racing experience themself. Even in the big leagues they think, the harder to drive the more realistic the sim/mod is. If that should be true, why would a private driver who has to pay 6,000 Euro put himself in a car and has to pay for all the damage, if cars are that difficult to drive at speed…

    Like

    1. As much as everyone likes to say “that the harder to drive = realistic” approach is the wrong one, I’m seeing way to many people flipping the opposite way now.

      I don’t think a sim should soften things up to compensate for the lack of real feedback I’m receiving. That is the crucial piece missing when it comes to us simming, so it makes perfect sense to me that a sim car might feel a bit different, or very occasionally leave me going “what??”. All I have is a weak and laggy wheel and a laggy visual reference that is the shape of a monitor, infront of a stationary background. Not to mention the lack of personal danger, car damage, etc.
      But I’m wanting my software to give me as close to the real thing as possible, not tweaking and altering things just because it can be challenging to race without those feelings.

      If you think about it with your example, that enough is going to make someone keep their driving in check. Paid 6,000 excluding damages? He’d be slightly unhinged if he went to rip out on his first lap and bust the records, which is what I see online people doing all the time. Heck, I do it. There is no consequence to my actions.
      How many shots of onboard footage do I need to see where people aren’t actually dancing around on the limit in a race. Unlike in a sim where I have tyre noise when I’m over the limits, visual movement onscreen of the car rotating, already that is going wrong bigtime. So I do have to work my driving, juggling the car and using those visual clues to keep me as far on/over the limit for the best laptimes.

      I’ve had my fair share of dodgy moments in my road car (and bike for that matter), and even just approaching those “limits” was enough to give me oodles of feedback on what I was doing. I could feel the slide about to happen, sort of “lean” against that feeling and use it to gauge my cornering. I could feel how hard I was actually accelerating out of the corner, so so easily and the same for braking coming into a corner. Judging my weight transfer, etc. Not to mention how quickly I could react to the slide and catch it so easily.

      It’s very easy to say that a real car isn’t this hard, I totally agree with that statement. It IS easier to race in a real car, most of us who have driven something hard get that.
      Give it some thought to the differences in the experience though, and that difficulty makes more sense to understand. To fudge it and make it artificially easy takes away from the simulation aspect IMO.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. It’s also way easier to say “oh, this is missing, not a sim” than to take a considered look at the effects it has on a real car, and whether a game needs those. The real arcade stuff is automatic stability controls type of things – the car fails to spin because the game is applying magic forces to keep it in line. If you’re just missing some setup options that the real car has, it ends there – you’re missing some options, but the ones it has can still be simulated correctly. For example, in the real world you can give your car -5 degrees of ignition timing and destroy the top end power… most sims don’t even let you tune the engine. It’s not cause they aren’t sims, it’s cause they’re picking their features – a good race happens when everyone’s engine is in similar working condition, so making it artificially easy to build a good engine just leads to more racing.

        Like

      2. “I don’t think a sim should soften things up to compensate for the lack of real feedback I’m receiving.”

        Yes, that´s right, but which sim does that? Certainly not pCars, iRacing, AC, Dirt Rally, AMS apart from some car-exceptions.

        For example many open-wheelers have this kind of ultra-sensitive throttle-control where the slightest amount of “to much” letting the car spin without any chance of rescue. Imagine sitting in a real car handling with 2G and hot temperatures from the engine driving maybe 70 laps and you think they have to deal with this kind of foot-sensitivity when coming out of a corner? No, they would tell their engineers to fucking fix that.

        And look at the DTM-cars without any kind of optional TC or ABS. In sim-racing they are still relatively easy to handle just because they are made for racing. Even in the rain you don´t see many spins in RL. Even with slicks on a little wet track. Try this in rF2…

        Like

  19. Have to disagree with the ‘introducing Oculus Rift support like virtually every other sim’. AMS – said they would if a specific level of crowdfunding was achieved, now seem to have backed down and are saying no. Assetto Corsa – was there for a while, they said they’d have SDK1 support for ‘when the CV1 starts dropping through letterboxes’ but now no, no timeline given. R3E did have it, but no longer do because Oculus dropped DirectX9 support. Maybe they’ll move to Unreal4, maybe they’ll support it then but when will that be?

    So that leaves .. everyone’s favourite ‘sim’ – Project CARS as the only ‘sim’ providing full VR support.

    Like

  20. They ISI are always like that. Not giving up dates when things are released. No pressure and things don’t have to be half sim-cade to make it in time then. SuperGT will come and blow the fuck out of you away man.

    BTW. That URD shot looks proper sexy. 🙂

    Like

  21. (I think everybody has fantasised what they would ask Elvis if he was still alive. I know what I would ask him:
    “What’s your favourite film?”)

    Jaws? Jaws 2? More Jaws? or Jaws rebooted?
    Please, let’s take a second to think about a future state of love and bliss
    Brought to you by wish lists of eight year old boys who only crave explosions
    Why?
    Well, being eight, they have an excuse – they’rre eight!
    and giant robots cannot distract them from their fate

    Middle aged men on a movie date, committed to mortal shame

    Hey! Relax! No-one died – in fact, they left improved!
    If Michael Bay wants a bigger house, let’s help him
    Art? ha!
    Where you from?
    Where you been?
    He said:
    I went to Cannes once and and really did not have much fun
    Why?
    Well, being French, they talk too much
    and all those pages of subtitles kept getting stuck

    1 becomes 2, 2 becomes 3
    1 becomes 2, 2 becomes 3

    Pirates of the Caribbean 47
    Johnny Depp stars as the robot pirate who loses his wife in a game of poker
    and tries to win her back with hilarious consequences
    At least Harry Potter has a proper story in the sense that the characters crave an ending
    If only to release poor Billy Corgan from his role as the titular character’s nemesis
    Robocop 4 is in pre-production, like Robocop 3 wasn’t bad enough
    and George Lucas won’t be kicking his heels ’til he makes some money from Howard the Duck
    Robocop 4 is in pre-production, like Robocop 3 wasn’t bad enough
    I hope the projectionist likes his action motion-tracked and medicated

    (the first director died)

    Like

  22. While I agree with the general sentiment of this article, throwing unlabeled Craptaku links in there is not OK, James. Seriously not OK.

    Like

  23. I dont get how this dude goes on about the nissan not having data due to them being busy but the car model is piss poor and that generation has been retired from super gt for 3 years now.

    Like

    1. hahaha

      Do you fear AC so much that you need to call it simcade? If you don’t feel threatened, why you don’t make the same campaign against Grid 2 but insist on the same game? 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

      1. A few words about Assetto Corsa’s physics limitations.

        Modern openwheelers can be very stiff … i mean extremely stiff, springs and ARBs (dampers as well)! and Assetto Corsa has engine limitations that doesn’t allow using high suspension rates (causes weird bugs)!

        Interactive aerodynamics physics is a must for an openwheeler, rear aero depends on what’s happening at the front and the rear not only the rear! and vice versa (interaction between front wing and diffuser for example)

        Tyre model is not well explained and needs more variables to be added, to get realistic grip and temperatures/pressure behaviour! You can’t cook accurate slicks with it.

        Lack of setup options possibilities in general

        Like

      2. The physics of Assetto Corsa are not of simulation value, when you compare it to the way a racing driver and racing team and even vehicle manufacturers can use rFactor and rFactor 2’s physics to develop their cars and their drivers in a way that provides accurate data which they can rely on to use at races.

        To give you an example. All our race team clients and even our series clients, they don’t only use rFactor for track familiarization. They also use it to test setup data before they go to an event, they use it to test potential new part data, by developing new brakes or new engine performances and testing it in the game before they actually commit to building it in real life. rF1 and rF2 provide far higher accuracy for those things than any other simulation on the market. When it comes to AC, their game is marketed for a set audience which covers not only the Simulation side, but the Semi-Arcade side. When I drive rF1 or rF2, I’m always in a serious state of mind, I can’t just go out on the track and run a few laps. It is too simulation based and I treat it as such. I work on my setups, I push to find every tenth I can throughout a lap. I analyze too much. When I play Assetto Corsa, I can easily go in, pick a car and track, chill back and drive using my Xbox360 controller and not give a care. The physics seem very much like Forza Motorsport 5, a console game physics HOWEVER, Kunos has done a great job to mix the two styles of physics to provide more sense of simulation for the simulation fans, but cut down to the wire, rFactor 2’s physics engine is by far the most simulation based physics engine using real life aero and physical data that no other title has come close to.

        Like

    1. When you enter real data to rFactor 2, it works like real life, it’s not the case for Assetto Corsa, you always have to use workarounds and substitute models

      Like

  24. Reiza literally selling rFactor 1 again with no AI code improvements with abhorrent results and Empty Box and his parrots be shilling again lmao

    Like

  25. rFactor2 remains far from finished despite development was made public through a screenshot in March 2009. It offically came out first in January 2012 when the beta was realeased. It “went out” of beta in early 2013 yet being 7+ years in development it still feels far from finished. And will it ever be finished I dont think so.

    Liked by 1 person

      1. I cannot believe someone actually has been so pathetic to put something like this together. Seriously, that must be the saddest post i have ever seen. You`re truly a waste of human dna..

        Like

  26. Reiza literally selling rFactor 1 again with no AI code improvements with abhorrent results and Empty Box and his parrots be shilling again lmao!

    Like

  27. The sad thing is that if only all those wankers spent their time actually doing something worth out of their time instead of making terrible memes, lame graphics comparisons and the like and then spamming here to no end, this world would be a better place to live in.

    Kill yourselves, you wankers. Nobody cares about your spam.

    Like

  28. Inbred cumdumpsters! Autism shills simcade, no simcade value and all must die! Ashitty Cornhole hahahahahaha

    Did i forget anything?

    Like

  29. I tried to post a sensible comment discussing a point made in the original piece.

    I wholeheartedly apologise. I realise now that this is not the place for sensible constructuve discussions. How stupid I was.

    I used to argue to my wife that computer gaming, especially sim racing, is not childish. I don’t think I’ll bother any more, in case she ever happens to read this comments section.

    Like

  30. FFS! 😡
    You PRC administrators really need to do something about the fuckin memes, the spam, and also the “major disinformation” crappola in the comments.
    It’s vomite inducing.
    So much, that it makes visiting this section of the articles extremely unpleasant.

    About the article and RF2, plenty have said for years now that RF2 was already dead at birth, with valid reasons to back that remark. They were ignored by ISI at their own peril.
    The first Beta was disapointing back then, and so the whole product remained for the following years, and to this very day. And it will remain so.

    The physics-engine may be the best ever, a trillion times better than RF1’s (and whatever iterations the old one may have had in SIMBIN sims), but for what is that good for if no modding-team can make it worthy?
    The graphics were already super disappointing (and unoptimized) in 2012. That’s right, FOUR fucking years ago.
    The game is not worthy of the price that it (still) is being sold.
    Why would any mod-team pick a platform that present more obstacles and downsides than benefits, besides a much smaller userbase to other competitors (older ones even)?
    And how the fuck would newcomers and casuals (on steam and elsewhere) ever feel interested by it, when many of the veterans had already turned their back to it?

    I think it’s about time ISI realize themselves (and their legion of fanboys) that they are not good game developpers.
    About a decade ago, they used to have (by far) the best overall platform (or game-engine) for sim-racing game developpers. And that’s what they should have focused on solely, IMHO.

    This genre was for ISI to dominate and thrive – they failed with RF2. Instead, we get other super incomplete and/or messy productions thriving in a possibly dying genre.
    Please bring back the thrill and positive things of the mid-1990s to sim-racing, because the mid-2010s crap is already over the rough.

    Liked by 1 person

  31. It is sad (once it was funny) seeing Hexagramme and Associat0r always trying to defend specific points of the game with the same, now-outdated arguments. 2 fanboys part of the rf2 testing team trying to fight off reasons why modders like CTDP and dozens of individual artists who made the finest mods for rf1 abandoned the rf2 ship even when given a free, lifetime license. Finest = cartfactor, drm, p&g, f1 1979.

    A lot of us want the game to be good but at this point we have given up hope. There has been no positive internal change at ISI, they can’t get data, the cars they do have data are not that great, the new tire model is still flawed and problematic, ply bias tires are still the worst offenders of pressure, the cars that have been completed years ago and released with data still have bad visuals or glitches, etc.

    Like

  32. Funny how the game does look like that, yet Mr. Fanboy Hexagramme went to lie away on the comments section. Fanboyism against a game is stupid, fanboyism for a game lying to yourself about shortcomings, and publicizing those lies to others, is annoying.

    Like

  33. rFactor 2 is the best, it’s a shame communities have abandoned me have left to do mod ‘s, all went to the Assetto Corsa , blind people do not know what is good …

    Like

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