Pretentious Marketing

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It’s not a Reader Submission here at PRC.net, but it should be, and as a result, I’m going to treat it like one. No less than an hour ago, a user by the name of Vadara over on Reddit’s home for Sim Racing posted a lengthy rant detailing his opinion on the marketing pitch used used by both Forza Motorsport and Gran Turismo, in comparison to the hardcore roster of PC-based racing simulators. Vadara is frequently annoyed at the claims made by Turn 10 and Polyphony Digital indicating their respective products are no-nonsense racing simulators, when the entire world of PC sim racing exists and are demonstrably operating on an entirely different level compared to mass-market mainstream console games. His points are valid, and I believe this is something we should talk about here at PRC.net.


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Does the pretension of Forza and Gran Turismo bother any of you guys?

Forza isn’t too bad, but as I get deeper into the world of sim racing, I find Gran Turismo and Kazunori Yamauchi’s pretentious attitude to be insufferable. GT carries itself as this super-realistic driving simulator even, though any PC sim racer would find that laughable. There are features in early-2000’s PC sims that still aren’t – or won’t be – in GT6 or GT Sport.

The Real Driving Simulator? GT6 still doesn’t understand that high-horsepower rear wheel drive cars spin out when you dump the clutch and mash the gas from a standing start (I also remember a thread on GTPlanet where it was conclusively determined that GT5 does not model tire width at all). Then there’s shit like the GT Academy (as if GT could ever prepare someone for real racing) and GT Sport’s “official FIA GT” malarkey. GT Sport will allow people to get a license that qualifies them for real-life FIA GT events, which is just laughable honestly. Then we have Yamauchi’s bizarre belief that he’s creating the most hardcore realistic driving simulation ever, doing things like making his team obsessively model the stitching on a Miata’s seats while the tire physics lag behind NASCAR Racing 2003 and rFactor. The dude has even trashed Forza and said it wasn’t a sim, as if his game was a sim at all and as if Forza’s physics weren’t superior to GT’s at the time (they still are). He doesn’t even acknowledge PC simulators at all!

I have the Apex book that came the Collector’s Edition of GT5. The book’s prose has this insufferable tone that it’s a guide to racing in real life too. At one point it mentions hell-and-toe shifting, even though GT’s clutch function is hidden behind a button press not mentioned anywhere in the game or manual. And I’m pretty sure no car in GT actually needs rev matching to stay stable. The fanboys are the worst. GT has conned a huge amount of people into believing that it really is the most realistic sim out there. There are people who buy wheels JUST to play GT!

To be honest, Forza isn’t as bad, they have the same “super-realistic fuck yeah Pirelli tire data” marketing hogwash, but Greenwalt was never as pretentious about it as Yamauchi. It really is the definition of pretension – pretending to be something more talented than one really is.

I dunno, man. I have a lot of great memories with Forza and Gran Turismo, but they’re just too… Simple. iRacing, rFactor, Reiza Studios products, Assetto Corsa, and NASCAR 2003 have a dynamism and liveliness that the two mainstream console sims just can’t provide, and to see those two series act like they’re the pinnacle of realism (Christ, Project-Fucking-Cars is more realistic and that game is a goddamn mess). It’s like those guys who say they’re hardcore gamers, but all they play is Call of Duty and Assassin’s Creed. Or guys who claim to love music, but only listen to Top 40 hits and maybe a meme genre. We’ve got all these great sims who aren’t even mentioned for their achievements, while reviewers give GT and Forza high marks for “realism.” Ugh.


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I agree that the marketing tactics behind both Gran Turismo and Forza can be a bit bothersome, and I think it’s valid to say Forza and Gran Turismo are being a bit pretentious in this regard. However, the bigger problem lies in how these games are designed to be played. I personally enjoyed how Gran Turismo 6 felt when I made fairly substantial changes to the driving assist and tire compound settings, but nobody is going to play the game in the same manner as I do. And I don’t think the NASCAR Expansion for Forza 6 felt all that bad, but I’d indeed much rather be playing NASCAR Racing 2003 Season. I will say that both Gran Turismo and Forza can be quite good when you sit down like a true sim racing autist and figure out how to disable all of the babby-tier assists, crafting a PC sim-like experience inside of a strange and foreign environment.

The problem arises when how these games are structured from a design standpoint They’re advertising a simulator, and with all of the bullshit turned off they are indeed approaching a level of fidelity on-par with PC simulators, but you’re given no incentive to play the game like a simulator. Instead, Polyphony and Turn 10 hold your hand at every possible point during your journey. Why does Gran Turismo give people ultra grippy compound tires by default?  Why was Forza pushing a “rewind” system for so many years? What’s this Skid Recovery Force setting, and why can’t it be turned off during the trademark license tests in Gran Turismo 6? Why are an overwhelming majority of the single player campaign events three lap affairs? Where’s qualifying? Where’s the traditional race weekend format? Why are the Endurance Races in Forza 6 pushed off to the side, the completion of which now entirely optional?

I’m not even asking for pace car support or flag rules yet, but I agree it’s pretty ridiculous how we have multiple companies coming out to boast about how hardcore their games are, but when you put them in the disc tray it’s just a bunch of random three lap races with no qualifying – Mario Kart with real cars. Like, you’ve built this multi-million dollar racing “simulator”, with physics engines that are allegedly the most advanced on the market, but suddenly the entire product has been designed around intentionally not wanting to do racing simulator-y things. Instead, the races have become almost secondary to the progression. Be sure to rate your favorite designs on the marketplace! Buy perks! Level up your driver! Develop affinity! Complete our handful of random oh-so-silly challenges!

When you call that experience a simulator, and there’s this whole line of PC games just sort of chilling in the distance that fit the simulator description better than “knock over all the cones for a gold star!”, pretentious is a good word to start with.

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If Forza and Gran Turismo would stop holding people’s hands throughout the entire game, I think the rivalry between PC sim racers, and their console brothers, would more or less disappear. The console guys would have a worthwhile product to invest themselves in, and the PC guys would even be inclined to check out the console offerings. That’s the direction Turn 10 and Polyphony need to go in, they need to eradicate this rivalry by changing how their games are structured. For a real world example, my local sim racing center is actually quite popular, and there are a lot of guys who come in touting previous experience on the Forza Motorsport series. Many are outright brutal when they’re behind the wheel in rFactor 2, and some actually leave the place in disgust, convinced that the game is broken or something. That kind of situation adds to the rivalry.

So how would a developer turn this thing around?

Let’s identify the problem with these console games.

As I mentioned above, Forza and Gran Turismo have told their user base that they’re playing hardcore racing simulators, but neither game bothers to take off the kid gloves at any point in time, and that’s what causes this hate and disparity among genuine sim racers and Forza/GT fanboys masquerading as sim racers. You have two completely different experiences offered under the same general banner, and only one of them fits the definition of hardcore simulator. Yes, Forza has assists. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, because not everyone is a fantastic virtual driver out of the box. Yes, Forza has rewind. Again, not a bad thing, because restarting races can get frustrating for someone who is new and constantly smashing into the wall. And yes, both mainstream racing sims have woefully short events throughout their single player campaigns. Also not a bad thing, I don’t want to drive any sort of Toyota hatchback in a 40-minute endurance session for a few thousand credits.

But as both games progress, neither title explicitly stops holding your hand and welcomes you to the big leagues, so to speak. At no point in Forza or Gran Turismo are you asked to qualify for a race, with the Restart button greyed out to drill home how nerve-wracking a super-pole session can be. When you hit Driver Level 20, the races suddenly don’t become hour-long affairs that require razor-sharp reflexes, the Endurance races are always neatly hidden away in a sub-menu far away from the primary progression. After two or three clean races, the driving line isn’t permanently turned off; you can smash and shunt your way through career mode at your own pace, and Forza actually dropped the once-hilarious concept of paying for repairs after each event because it was too demoralizing for the players.

What I’m getting at, is that neither Forza nor Gran Turismo force you to become a better virtual race car driver – and they should. Simulators are supposed to be challenging, demanding, and requiring your total concentration. Both titles are quite competent under the hood, but this competence is always kept away from the public eye under a flurry of simplified bullshit meant for kids like SLAPTrain who can’t go more than a few corners without wrecking. If after a few hours of play, Forza turned all the assists off on you and said “Nope, you’ve got to complete this endurance event at Road Atlanta because you’ve passed the tutorial stages”, I think the marketing babble of calling it a hardcore simulator would at least feel appropriate rather than pretentious. And it’s the same with the Gran Turismo line of games. The entire career mode shouldn’t be a repetitious Sunday Cup, and there has to be a point where the title no longer tries to coddle you.

  • Two hours in? Alright, no more three lap races. Here’s a touring car, each race in this series is anywhere from ten to twenty five laps. Rewinds and the racing line have been permanently disabled. You have two qualifying laps. Good luck.

If Turn 10 and Polyphony were to turn the full power of Gran Turismo and Forza loose on the masses, their marketing campaign would no longer feel pretentious.

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54 thoughts on “Pretentious Marketing

  1. Well, Forza and GT are the big systemsellers for PS and Xbox for >10 years. They are made for the masses and with that comes the big marketing bullshittery for the masses. But the marketing is still on point because for 99% of the buyers it is the most realistic driving model they gonna expierence. A big chunk wont even turn the driving assistances of because it wouldnt be fun for them anymore. So this is really just a problem for the hardcore audience which should know better. Why would anybody expect the most hardcore physics on a console game where the majority is using a fucking gamepad.

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    1. The physics of Assetto Corsa are not of simulation value, when you compare it to the way a racing driver and racing team and even vehicle manufacturers can use rFactor and rFactor 2’s physics to develop their cars and their drivers in a way that provides accurate data which they can rely on to use at races.

      To give you an example. All our race team clients and even our series clients, they don’t only use rFactor for track familiarization. They also use it to test setup data before they go to an event, they use it to test potential new part data, by developing new brakes or new engine performances and testing it in the game before they actually commit to building it in real life. rF1 and rF2 provide far higher accuracy for those things than any other simulation on the market. When it comes to Assetto Corsa, their game is marketed for a set audience which covers the Semi-Arcade side. When I drive rF1 or rF2, I’m always in a serious state of mind, I can’t just go out on the track and run a few laps. It is too simulation based and I treat it as such. I work on my setups, I push to find every tenth I can throughout a lap. I analyze too much. When I play Assetto Corsa, I can easily go in, pick a car and track, chill back and drive When using my Xbox360 controller and not give a care. The physics seem very much like Forza Motorsport 5, a console game physics HOWEVER, Kunos has done a great job for the simcade fans, but cut down to the wire, rFactor 2’s physics engine is by far the most simulation based physics engine using real life aero and physical data that no other title has come close to.

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    2. Assetto Corsa is developed by Italian studio Kunos Simulazion – Released last year for Windows, the game will be coming to PS4 and Xbox One next year, it does cede a little more ground to the notion that ‘game’ isn’t such a dirty word.

      According to James Dover, the game can be happily played with a controller. But while the game does deliver in terms of graphics, James reckons its physics engine “lacks seriousness”.

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      1. A few words about Assetto Corsa’s physics limitations.

        Modern openwheelers can be very stiff … i mean extremely stiff, springs and ARBs (dampers as well)! and Assetto Corsa has engine limitations that doesn’t allow using high suspension rates (causes weird bugs)!

        Interactive aerodynamics physics is a must for an openwheeler, rear aero depends on what’s happening at the front and the rear not only the rear! and vice versa (interaction between front wing and diffuser for example)

        Tyre model is not well explained and needs more variables to be added, to get realistic grip and temperatures/pressure behaviour! You can’t cook accurate slicks with it.

        Lack of setup options possibilities in general

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  2. I’d say the marketing in PC sims are even worse. Project CARS probably had the most pretentious and condescending marketing campaign in sim racing history with its “sim for the masses” bullshit. Ian Bell calling PCARS the “most advanced racing simulator” is sickening, when this game is in simcade territory with GT and Forza. AC being marketed as “Your Racing Simulator” is funny considering the game still lacks essential features that are in most racing sims.

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    1. Bro what are you on about? All you need to race is cars and tracks. Therefore is simulating racing. Your Racing Simulator means a Simulator where You Race.

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      1. By that logic, The Crew is a racing simulator since it has some real world American tracks located within the game’s open world.

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        1. You didn’t read correctly. A Simulator where You Race, or which You use for Racing. If you consider Gene Rally a simulator in the first place, then sure, it can be your ultimate racing simulator. But AC in the first place is a simulator for how cars drive in the technical way and then they want players to use it for racing, which they already can.

          To make it even more explicit, Your Racing Simulator doesn’t mean the ultimate and most complete form of racing simulator (as in the ways racing is organized and customized, like F1 games by Codemasters). It doesn’t mean how detailed and customized the form of racing is simulated, but it means you’re using a simulation of cars to race them.

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        2. And it’s free too! Quick, get shilling! (Full disclosure, I do actually have an account in the Generally forums, but the last time I went there was ages ago.)

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  3. I’m waiting for the AC shills to come here claiming their hot lap Forza wannabe game is far superior and will blow the console crowd away…

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    1. Not a fanboy, but it’s hardly a Forza wannabe, if it was, it would have focused on a money system and customization. AC is going to get torn apart on console, apart from a small community of people, I rekon.

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      1. The physics of Assetto Corsa are not of simulation value, when you compare it to the way a racing driver and racing team and even vehicle manufacturers can use rFactor and rFactor 2’s physics to develop their cars and their drivers in a way that provides accurate data which they can rely on to use at races.

        To give you an example. All our race team clients and even our series clients, they don’t only use rFactor for track familiarization. They also use it to test setup data before they go to an event, they use it to test potential new part data, by developing new brakes or new engine performances and testing it in the game before they actually commit to building it in real life. rF1 and rF2 provide far higher accuracy for those things than any other simulation on the market. When it comes to Assetto Corsa, their game is marketed for a set audience which covers the Semi-Arcade side. When I drive rF1 or rF2, I’m always in a serious state of mind, I can’t just go out on the track and run a few laps. It is too simulation based and I treat it as such. I work on my setups, I push to find every tenth I can throughout a lap. I analyze too much. When I play Assetto Corsa, I can easily go in, pick a car and track, chill back and drive When using my Xbox360 controller and not give a care. The physics seem very much like Forza Motorsport 5, a console game physics HOWEVER, Kunos has done a great job for the simcade fans, but cut down to the wire, rFactor 2’s physics engine is by far the most simulation based physics engine using real life aero and physical data that no other title has come close to.

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  4. iRacing, rFactor, Reiza Studios products, Assetto Corsa, and NASCAR 2003 have a dynamism and liveliness that the two mainstream console sims just can’t provide ………… What a Fucking Crap statement!

    After the release of Pcars ( a fucking mess as it may be ) , assetto corsa coming soon on console , dirt rally out now ! on console .

    The mind set of the developers is changing toward more of a sim experience than a arcade experience as the age of the console user is older than it was 10 years ago , as they still have the people who enjoy there consoles and have aged with them.

    Hell its pretty dam obvious things are changing on consoles and its paying dividends for the developers who chose to take the risk with sim like games . I am surprised Rfactor and or Reiza studios hasn’t jumped on the console boat.

    GT sport wait and see , we will find out soon enough how sim like it is …..
    As for foza it has its place.

    Now lets bash farming simulator.

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  5. “Many are outright brutal when they’re behind the wheel in rFactor 2, and some actually leave the place in disgust, convinced that the game is broken or something.”

    Lol, get a lot of that in the forums and comments of sim racing too, how bout that.

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  6. I think the main problem with Gran Turismo is it’s still trying to live in the past with providing realistic handling but with arcade racing mixed in. This wouldn’t be a problem if there was more options to the game, but Kaz has followed the same format since 2002; start off with a shitbox and a few small races, then progress to well known race cars and two lap longer or half hour races now. I remember when there were 24 hour races in GT but now they work more on graphics and less on reimagining handling, and that’s something that’s been done by many devs since the PS3/Xbox 360 was released, and fans hate it.

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  7. The last good racing game that had a challenging and rewarding career mode imo was Forza 2. Some races in that game were so difficult that I would spend a week modifying my car in different ways with different combinations of power and handling upgrades to try and extract the maximum performance for a particular track. Sure you could always just go and switch on traction control, but at least you would get some kind of penalty like less credits.

    As far as GT goes, I found that there is simply far too much grip (even with comfort tires). It takes more skill in GT6 to get a car to spin out than it does to keep it under control. When you do spin out, it doesn’t feel dynamic, it feels scripted in some way, like it’s the same every time. That’s my impression anyway. In regards to career mode, as far as I remember there was no kind of reward for turning off the assists. There should be some kind of incentive for upping the difficulty. I simply hate the fact that if a race is too hard, you can turn on assists with no kind of drawback. Also, I switched off after the knocking down the cones event. The game clearly was not made by racing enthusiasts if they include things like that.

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  8. This man deserves a medal. I’ve been thinking most of these things for years.

    CAN SOMEONE PLESE START SPAMMING GTPLANET WITH THIS ARTICLE??

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  9. No need to enforce a thing. GT just needs to have a way of telling the player they are getting a toned down experience out of the box and also to provide clues on where and how can they get the cars to handle as they should and a separate option for the actual racey stuff to be enabled, since some might still prefer the car to be a car, yet could care less about wasting an hour or two on a circuit.

    If you force them to drive the way they don’t want, they just bail out on you. Need a little bit more in terms of tactics there. As a racer you should understand what tactics is.

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  10. rF2 uses a physical thermo-mechanical tire model, where peak slip angles and ratios dynamically change due to temperature, pressure and camber as it does in reality. So you have to adapt to dynamic situations, and therefore can’t rely on old crutches from outdated static (empirical steady state) tire models from other sims.

    Wake ne up when those other titles have physics, AI, netcode, race rules and other essential simracing features worth using. I hope it’s going to be in my life time.

    Have a majorly nice day

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    1. Too bad with all that stuff under the bonnet rF2 is still crappy with Automobilista sometimes managing to provide a better feel. That said, AMS also far from being perfect.

      Maybe in another 5 years… If Ogonoski won’t manage to kill off the whole genre by then.

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      1. We have a whole community of rF2 supporters on the ISI forums, where we are intelligent enough to know that rF2 is the most advanced racing simulator right now. AC, PCars, and iRacing fanboys are jealous of this because they know that their sim is majorly inferior to rF2. No other racing simulator except for rF2 has a physical thermo-mechanical tire model, dynamic peak slip angles, dynamic ratios.

        It’s always the AC fanboys that are the most bitter when the facts are presented to them. rF2 is a much more authentic racing simulator than AC will ever be, and these are facts.

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        1. Yes, within the tight constraints of the ISI forums, rF2 is the best sim, and you all happily wank to the thermo nuclear tire model with different stroke ratios and alternating angles, then peak simultaniously, before dynamically wiping each other clean.
          In the harsh realm of the real world though, rF2 is based on an old engine, has wrong physics, drives bad, lookes worse, and nobody plays it.

          THAT is the fact, whether you like to accept it or not…

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        2. Yep, it’s the most advanced simulator no shit, yet it’s still crappy and woeful when you drive it around. The truth is, there is no car sim out there yet that would get close enough to represent the actual driving. Better shift to flying instead. At least there are some decent sims around regarding to that activity.

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        3. sorry, but its just not authentic, no need to bring in other sims, rF2 is even dull if you have never played anything else.
          There is no connection with the car at all when driving in rF2, it does not feel like you are driving.
          If they have a correct physics model behind it, there is something fundamentally wrong with the FFB and graphics engine. The jolting of the drivers head is weired, and so are the reactions of the car going over crests and bumps. I’ve tried it quite a few times with the demo content that changes from time to time, and gave it several hours, but could not accustomize to it.
          Driving feels artificial, and it does not invoke any car control skills that one may exhibit.

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    2. The physics of Assetto Corsa are not of simulation value, when you compare it to the way a racing driver and racing team and even vehicle manufacturers can use rFactor and rFactor 2’s physics to develop their cars and their drivers in a way that provides accurate data which they can rely on to use at races.

      To give you an example. All our race team clients and even our series clients, they don’t only use rFactor for track familiarization. They also use it to test setup data before they go to an event, they use it to test potential new part data, by developing new brakes or new engine performances and testing it in the game before they actually commit to building it in real life. rF1 and rF2 provide far higher accuracy for those things than any other simulation on the market. When it comes to Assetto Corsa, their game is marketed for a set audience which covers the Semi-Arcade side. When I drive rF1 or rF2, I’m always in a serious state of mind, I can’t just go out on the track and run a few laps. It is too simulation based and I treat it as such. I work on my setups, I push to find every tenth I can throughout a lap. I analyze too much. When I play Assetto Corsa, I can easily go in, pick a car and track, chill back and drive When using my Xbox360 controller and not give a care. The physics seem very much like Forza Motorsport 5, a console game physics HOWEVER, Kunos has done a great job for the simcade fans, but cut down to the wire, rFactor 2’s physics engine is by far the most simulation based physics engine using real life aero and physical data that no other title has come close to.

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  11. I get your point, but I don’t think their approach will change.

    Doing all the marketing shit associated with mainstream console games costs money, and the devs have to justify that with the bottom line.
    To do that, they need broad appeal; hardcores/fans of the game will buy it regardless, it’s the casuals that have the most potential to increase sales, hence the handholding present in most modern games.

    The Souls series has been pretty successful as a ‘hard’ game series, but the RF2 servers (among others) tell their own story on how well that’s gone down in racing games/sims.

    A sort of middle ground could work though; but maybe in a more of a xp/credits incentive to take off driver aids rather than just blocking them from the player.

    In GT6 you got more credits/xp if you used a slower car in seasonal events, in the GRID series you gained more xp for turning off driving aids/ raising AI difficulty, the ToCA games had a ‘Pro’ mode with more’hardcore’ physics so there is a precendent in that respect.

    Design and market it right and it could work quite well without affecting playerbase.

    Surely Kaz will deliver.

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    1. “We can’t afford advertising so as ever before we will have to rely on word of mouth (or word of text).” – Scaven

      Is that the best you can do?

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  12. I personally enjoyed how Gran Turismo 6 felt when I made fairly substantial changes to the driving assist and tire compound settings, but nobody is going to play the game in the same manner as I do.

    What you said James, it not true, go to gtp, there’s a special tuner garage that does exactly that and it has the most realistic cars tuned in GT6, even one user said one of the cars close to AC mod. Look for NSX in the last 10 pages.

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  13. The physics model isn’t the issue provided you are playing with a wheel which disables some hidden assists.

    The issue is the mass market doesn’t want to qualify, they don’t want to be black flagged they don’t want to run laps under caution.

    That’s why these games you all like to hate on sell millions of copies, have hundreds of cars, tons of tracks and huge community’s meanwhile on the PC side everybody’s fighting over something, nobody actually likes any of the damn games, they are all ugly as sin with crap audio and ai and they will never get any better.

    Sometimes its possible to take something too seriously. If you reach that point you should be on a real track not sitting behind a PC.

    Sometimes people just want to have a fun exciting race and don’t give a shit about who’s a tenth of a second faster.

    If either of those games came to PC and added all the actual rules of racing everyone would switch to them. Everyone.

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    1. I was gonna break your comment down and respond, but fuck it, every one of your points, if you can call them that, is retarded,why would anyone, take someone who reviews forza and hails it as the pinnacle of simulation, on sim racing seriously, and now according to you,apparently sim racers dont actually enjoy the proper sims we spend thousands of hours on, the entire thing is a farce cause your average sim racer cant get hold of a console,and sit down for 3 lap races,right..

      Ironically, your “opinion” is the direct result of the bullshit marketing this article talks about.

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    2. 90% of so called sim racers are just glorified driving sim enthusiast, with no real understanding of actual racing. They truly believe that the same tactics you use to win a race in NFS UNderground or burn out are the same tactics being used by the pros (aka wtf is a black flag? I don’t play assassins creed.) As stated earlier these games need to incentivise the user to adhere to racing rules and they should also degrade those whose choose the assisted driving mode, like wolfenstein did with their difficulty settings, easy was called panzey or something of the like. If your driving a simplified model designed for 10 year olds it should be clearly stated.

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  14. Incorrect, the GT Academy doesn’t teach people how to race in real life nor it’s a way for people to shortcut the racing career. It’s a competition to find 10 or 12 possible candidates to become works drivers for Nissan, but other than the preliminary sessions from home and the “live” final, they don’t touch the videogame anymore.

    Nismo boot camp isn’t a joke, those guys are trainded 24/7 by personal trainers, driving instructors (With former F1 and GT drivers among their tutors) and so on. They’re turned into real professional drivers (Unlike that Huttu guy that went racing in real life with no experience other than iRenting and wrecked his car) so it is a very formative and competitive enviroment where you succeed or else you’re sent home.

    When the first season of the GT Academy was launched, I thought that it would’ve been a disaster, yet the winner of that year (Lucas Ordonez) went on to become one of the best GT drivers in activity, racing in GT3 (BES), LMP1 (When Nissan went to Le Mans with that joke of FWD LMP1), LMP2 (WEC), SGT500 (SuperGT) and has been very successful ever since “graduating”. All the other winners after him more or less did the same.

    There was only 1 guy that did really terrible at the last season, and by “coincidence” he was american. He did well throughout all the competition so everybody thought the final exam would’ve been just a formality, yet when they went to Silverstone for the graduation race (Winner gets the works driver contract and full Nismo support), first he stalled at the start in pole position, then he almost wrecked another driver (The one who would’ve eventually won) and finally he wrecked himself after destroying the gearbox. I feasted with his tears as he punched the hood of the car a few times. Little ‘murican brat got what was coming for his arrogance.

    tl;dr

    GT Academy doesn’t give you a seat in a real race car nor it’s intended to teach you how to drive one. It gives you a ticket for a shot at becoming a professional driver. If you’re talented you go on, if you’re not you go home.

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  15. If people would just stop spreading disinformation here, I would have been gone a very long time ago.

    Funny how you people keep praising all other titles in this site, but never rF2.
    Titles that have majorly broken physics, AI, netcode and mods that keep breaking with every update.

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    1. Boohoo, does mommy’s little boy need a tissue? Does you need to cry a little? Why don’t you go and cry with the rest of the 3 people that play rf2…

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  16. car racing games market

    Console Mainstream: GT, Forza, F1 20xx, Pcars

    PC sims niche: iracing, AC,

    PC sims even smaller niche: AMS, RRRE

    PC sim of 3 lonely fighter: rFactor2

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    1. You miscategorized a bit.
      Mainstream is solely GT and Forza.
      AC, F1 20xx, iRacing, and PCARS have fairly similar player levels (F1’s the lowest but not by a lot, PCARS is the highest but not by a lot)

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  17. Would be nice if they asked at the start what sort of experience you want, and then the career goes down one of 2 paths, the traditional arcadey one, or the hardcore sim one with assists off, grippy tires off, longer races, qualifying etc. (and don’t allow people to switch back and forth)

    Liked by 1 person

  18. The physics of Assetto Corsa are not of simulation value, when you compare it to the way a racing driver and racing team and even vehicle manufacturers can use rFactor and rFactor 2’s physics to develop their cars and their drivers in a way that provides accurate data which they can rely on to use at races.

    To give you an example. All our race team clients and even our series clients, they don’t only use rFactor for track familiarization. They also use it to test setup data before they go to an event, they use it to test potential new part data, by developing new brakes or new engine performances and testing it in the game before they actually commit to building it in real life. rF1 and rF2 provide far higher accuracy for those things than any other simulation on the market. When it comes to Assetto Corsa, their game is marketed for a set audience which covers the Semi-Arcade side. When I drive rF1 or rF2, I’m always in a serious state of mind, I can’t just go out on the track and run a few laps. It is too simulation based and I treat it as such. I work on my setups, I push to find every tenth I can throughout a lap. I analyze too much. When I play Assetto Corsa, I can easily go in, pick a car and track, chill back and drive When using my Xbox360 controller and not give a care. The physics seem very much like Forza Motorsport 5, a console game physics HOWEVER, Kunos has done a great job for the simcade fans, but cut down to the wire, rFactor 2’s physics engine is by far the most simulation based physics engine using real life aero and physical data that no other title has come close to.

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  19. A few words about Assetto Corsa’s physics limitations.

    Modern openwheelers can be very stiff … i mean extremely stiff, springs and ARBs (dampers as well)! and Assetto Corsa has engine limitations that doesn’t allow using high suspension rates (causes weird bugs)!

    Interactive aerodynamics physics is a must for an openwheeler, rear aero depends on what’s happening at the front and the rear not only the rear! and vice versa (interaction between front wing and diffuser for example)

    Tyre model is not well explained and needs more variables to be added, to get realistic grip and temperatures/pressure behaviour! You can’t cook accurate slicks with it.

    Lack of setup options possibilities in general

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  20. “Forza isn’t bad”

    Wew lad

    Yeah no pretension there, WE’RE AS GREAT AT VIDEO GAMES AS MCLAREN IS AT CARS is super modest.

    “developed in a secret studio beneath Ford’s engineering center”
    Who knew that England and Canada were below Detroit?

    “And I’m pretty sure no car in GT actually needs rev matching to stay stable.”
    It auto clutches so people can’t jam the thing into gear at 15,000rpm instead of using the rear brakes like they do in every PC sim because they get a new engine every 5 laps, and nearly everyone runs ABS which is just going to let off the rear brake if you have a “reasonable” mismatch, of course you’re not going to notice it.

    Like

  21. To the ignorant AC fanboys who responded to my post, you try to tear down rF2 yet Assetto Corsa is a fucking SIMCADE racing game. rF2 is “woeful to drive” because you deluded AC fanboys are terrible at driving, and never driven a car on a track in real life before. rF2 simulates real life car physics far better than Assetto Corsa does. You cannot criticize rF2’s physics when your main sim is AC.

    Like

  22. After your hypothetical chnages to both games’ structures, your last paragraph should read:
    “If Turn 10 and Polyphony were to turn the full power of Gran Turismo and Forza loose on the masses, their customers would just not buy either product.”

    Thing is, both games are not for sim players but for people sick of mario kart and nfs but not quite into the thick of 1:1 simulation. They want to be sold the image of true simulation, less the hassle of 10 lap races because who wants to do that? Who wants to sit 15 minutes in a qualy session when the AI is dumb as crap anyway? Who needs a pace car when pace laps are boring as hell?Careers in those games can take up well over 30 hours to sort of complete and that is with short 3 lap races only. Basically you grind 3 laps over and over again, because, people just like this… But tell them to complete a season of 8 races 15 laps each? That is how you as a game dev recieve hate mail and death threats from 12-15 year olds.

    Like

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