Let’s try and make sense of this Australian-Sized mess

So yesterday, we ran a reader submission from a trusted source leaking the news that the highly anticipated 2015 V8 Supercars mod for Game Stock Car Extreme was cancelled, and would be completely re-built from the ground up by MakCorp for Assetto Corsa and rFactor 2. The news obviously wasn’t meant to be shared publicly for at least a few weeks, so over the course of about a day, each party involved quickly took to various message boards and news outlets to speak on the issue.

I’ll do my best to summarize what I’ve learned after reading all sides of the story and trying to find a common middle ground in each of them.

GSC 2015-09-13 15-55-34-15SimRacingOz, an Australian-based sim racing group, created a crowdfunding campaign to bring the 2015 V8 Supercars season to Game Stock Car Extreme. The team raised over $1,800 in donations, with most funds going towards the development of the mod. Initial concerns were raised about purchasing 3D models from a team called Sim Dreams, as they were routinely accused of stealing and/or ripping models from other sources.

During the later part of 2014, SimRacingOz approached Reiza Studios and asked for their help with the physics aspect of the mod. Reiza outright told them they could not directly collaborate with a mod team that was producing a mod featuring real world brands, manufacturers, and sponsors, but that they could get to work making their own car – what would later be the Holden Commodore released a few months ago – SimRacingOz could essentially use those physics and sounds as a base for their own full series mod.

GSC 2015-09-13 15-40-52-35Fast forward a whole bunch of months, and the SimRacingOz guys ran into problems completing their mod, asking for Reiza’s help yet again. Reiza essentially told them, again, that they couldn’t directly help out with a third party mod. As a result, a whole bunch of shit changed behind the scenes.

Why? This is where the stories differ. Our insider info shared yesterday essentially pointed the finger at Reiza, claiming they’d helped out SimRacingOz previously and had now refused to cooperate for some unknown reason (which isn’t uncommon within sim racing communities, as a couple Kunos guys have helped out with third-party mods for Assetto Corsa like the Mazda 787B and Shelby Cobra), while Reiza swears the two teams really hadn’t been working together at all to begin with.

Regardless of what side of the story is correct, the end result is the same – suddenly, the mod was shit-canned for Game Stock Car Extreme, and a PDF sent only to financial backers of the project outlined a new developer team behind the whole thing, as well as announced the mod would be released for both Assetto Corsa and rFactor 2.

We’ve got that PDF here:

This obviously angered a lot of people, as most gave SimRacingOz a few bucks solely because they wanted this mod for Reiza’s Stock Car Extreme, and knew Reiza were behind an integral element of the whole thing that would guarantee a top notch driving experience. As it stands right now, after the dust has settled, the Stock Car Extreme community basically crowdfunded a mod for Assetto Corsa and rFactor 2.

Nobody is getting their money back, either.

As for MakCorp, the new team behind the project? Their entire portfolio of publicly released mods consists of nothing but beta versions that haven’t been updated in months.

MakCorpI think that covers everything.

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36 thoughts on “Let’s try and make sense of this Australian-Sized mess

  1. That’s complete and utter bullshit. I feel sorry for those who put money into this. Kinda confirms my feeling that paying for mods isn’t the smartest move in the world. And MakCorp? Ha! This thing is never seeing the light of day.

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    1. Mak Corp made finished mods for Race 07 and formerly rFactor and the like when they were called MMG

      In the mean time they work for real-life race teams and series as mentioned in the leaked document above.

      For example, they did the official Formula E simulator among other things.

      Among professionals (people in the know), Mak Corp is the most professional modding team there is right now.

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      1. The average sim racer just feels butthurt because MAK-Corp is busy with real life race team stuff, you know, to.. uhm, make an actual living.

        People discrediting MAK-Corp are obviously quite clueless.

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      2. Ok associator, why are you now excusing mak corp for not finishing mods started in 2007, but you are so harsh and unfair with certain sim devs, like for eg isi. You keep saying they are on beta since 2009 and now you excuse mak corp for not finishing a couple of mods for years in a row, which are very early in the version number, like 0.2 or 0.3.

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      3. Just saying. That “simulator” is rF1 with a mod. They didn’t create a new game, they took rF1, added their mod to it and pouf.

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  2. i am one of those who backed the project and even do i admit i feel a bit bad that it will no longer be on GSC i am more than happy to welcome it on Rf2 🙂
    MAK-Corp guys are among the best if not the best,but not everyone knows that.

    About Reiza…i have more inside info then most and all i can say is that they are not as honest as they can be

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    1. “MAK-Corp guys are among the best if not the best,but not everyone knows that.”

      How will I know that if they never release what they tell they will do?

      Sorry, but the whole “they are busy with real ilfe racing” does not belong here. We are sim racers, not race team owners. Why will I care for stuff that I will never enjoy? MMG 2007 may be an awesome mod, but everything I could be interested (like that Group C up there) will never be finished by the looks of it.

      I will say that maybe this will be released one day, but with that history I don’t believe it will be top notch like the Reiza Commodore.

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  3. List of announced Mak Modding Group/Mak-Corp mods and projects:

    Initial D (wiped from rFactor Central)
    F1 1991 demo (didn’t have permission to convert)
    F1 1994 (wiped)
    F1 2006 (wiped)
    F1 2007 (released for rFactor and Race 07)
    F1 2008 (in dev for 7 years)
    World Racing Challenge (rF + R07 mod, huge scope)
    Megane Trophy (released for rFactor, poor quality)
    BTCC 1998 (no news since 2009)
    Audi A5 Cup (no news since 2011)
    Porsche Supercup (no news since 2010)
    Group C (unfinished 787B released for rFactor 2, 962C still missing)
    Formula 3 (released for rFactor 2 and Assetto Corsa, unfinished)
    F1 Classics (0.1 released for rFactor 2, completely unfinished)
    McLaren MP4-4 (first screenshots a couple months ago)
    Touring Car Legends (EB Falcon due for March 2014, nothing heard since)
    Classic Cars Mod (no news since 2012)
    SimRDisp7X displays (stolen from courier at gunpoint?)
    Online store (teased with DTM, no news since 2012)
    World Racing Challenge (standalone sim, no news since 2012)
    Simfunding (crowdfunding site, dead since Feb 2015)

    So Petros Mak has announced at least 17 mods, only one of which was actually ever finished. He has seemingly has zero idea how to manage a mod to completion. His actual role in the modding team/”corporation” seems to be the “CEO”, he has no knowledge of modelling, sound creation, or physics. He also faked his own near-death to create forum drama and sympathy, sadly RaceSimCentral died in 2010 and I can’t find an archive anywhere. That would make for a great PRC article. I remember his “wife” posting that they were just about to pull the plug before he woke from his coma.

    The contracts from “real racing teams” seems shady. They created the car used at public Formula E events, which is just a glorified rFactor mod. Their other contracts for Project CARS and V8 Supercar teams may have just been for the visual and audio aspect.

    Associator seems to be in here defending Petros, since he loves that comment from him about how AC has Forza-tier physics. What was an obvious demonstration of Petros’ complete lack of physics knowledge he sees as a death knell to AC’s credibility. “People discrediting MAK-Corp are obviously quite clueless.” “Among professionals (people in the know), Mak Corp is the most professional modding team there is right now.”

    Supposedly MAK’s team of modders will now model an entire field of V8 Supercars from scratch for Assetto Corsa and rFactor 2. I lost all hope after seeing that blue orb in the pdf.

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  4. I can sympathize with them getting taken by the Sim Dream guys, it’s hard to find affordable 3d artists who are legit. Probably the Sim Dream had a much more stolen-model-based timeline & price for providing the end product. Like ultimately when the industry itself is hiring the talent (half AC’s dream packs are outsourced, mostly to names familiar in modding community like URD, the meco, and RSR, and rf2/gsc get 3rd party work done too though I know less about their sources) a mod team who wants to hire the same people is going to have to pay the industry prices, or find someone coincidentally into the exact same series. Like, $1800 is a pretty solid amount for a mod team crowdfund, but it’s not really the amount 4 current-gen models cost to produce.

    That said, they really did throw a bit of blame around in places that don’t need to take any of it. Reiza just told them what was up, didn’t create the mess.

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  5. Gave these guys a tenner and was a bit concerned about it going to waste…..but shit I think I’ve gotten $10 worth of entertainment from sitting back and watching this shit show unfold from RD and behind the scenes….the shear amount of autism on display is mind blowing. Plus, as reiza said it pushed them to do the Super V8 in the first place? They can run off to Cambodia with my money at this point for all I care #toomuchdisposableincome

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  6. Heres my guess: the money is gone. If Reiza is blamed for the cancelled project, refunds don’t have to be given. For the time being, announce the project for other games in hopes of this all blowing over in a year or so once everyone’s forgotten about it.

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  7. Frankly, all my support goes to Reiza. I believe in this mod when i see it.

    The whole crowfunding thing says it all: they ask money for something they would never do now. If they have integrity they would refund the money for all who ask for it.

    They’re not gonna use original phsycis and sounds…but they still have it. Hummm….

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    1. I think they said that the money was already handed to the persons who made the first 3d models for the V8s and maybe also to the sounds etc. I don’t think they have sitting $1800 ready to refund, but is already used money for the mods that were going to be for GSCE. But now they are building everything from scratch along with makcorp. Though idk if really the 3d models will be from scratch or will patch up the ones they already have.
      But Reiza said those 3d models of the V8 they had to basically start the work from scratch, so is like the V8 currently in GSCE is made just by Reiza. I think I understood that right, if not feel free to pop in.

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      1. I understand they already spend the money, of course. But, sorry if i sound rude, this is their problem. They asked for money to do A and they ended doing B. That’s a fraud now and always. If they don’t have money, i think their only legitimate exit to this situation is finishing the mod in SCE too.

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      2. @TC not only that could be considered a fraud, but it’s also stupid to pay $1800 in advance for something it’s not even started nor especially finished. I wish I had met customers that stupid in my modding career that would give me $1800 for something that I don’t even have on the drawing board (Or modelling program in this case) yet. The blame is a bit on everyone, but especially on those “modders”. They can sue the modeller(s) for not respecting the contract only if they actually have signed a contract. If not, then they’re screwed. Badly.

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      3. I agree, the only correct thing to do here is to release their V8 for GSCE officially. And then they are free to release it for rf2 and ac. Even so, I think people will convert it from rf2 to gsce, so there’s that.

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    2. Reiza explanation is the one that makes sense. They also seemed to foresee a potential problem such as this. Their disclaimer post about ‘not lending any legitimacy to this project’ from a while ago (right after the mod team announcement) is very telling.

      These guys should be thanking Reiza for their very charitable gift of IP and working on their crowdfunded mod instead of making excuses.

      I’m pretty concerned about their abilities and it seems Reiza is too.

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  8. SimRacingOz has also shut down their online racing and pretty much told the forum participants that paid for the VIP membership that they’re shit out of luck. It’s funny that it closes just as this shitstorm rises. What an utter mess

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  9. I wonder who these guys actually are because I’ve never ever heard of the name SimRacingOz in my 6+ times of modding experience. Are they former members of other teams? Are they modders-wannabe who claim they can do “stuff” but in the end they can barely open a .dds in Photoshop just to add a giant cock on the livery because they think it’s fun?

    Because the only 2 modding groups based in Aus and/or NZ are the OSRM crew and the FVR team, and I’m personally unaware of any member from either one of those 2 modding groups quitting and creating their own team.

    There should be another team working on rF1 called Rock Solid Mates and they actually released the mod which is called RSM V8, but I dunno where they’re from. As I saw videos of their mod used in an aussie V8 Supercars-related tv show, I believe they’re aussies aswell.

    There is a 4th “team” working on the same cars (Volvo, Nissan, etc), but I believe it’s EU/NA based and is currently working on a Race07 V8 Supercars mod to include the 2014-15 cars, but the main guy behind it is called AndreasFC and you can find him posting mainly on RD and NoGrip and he’s also famous for his beautiful SuperTouring mod.

    While it’s sad that shit happened, now it will be even worse because of MAK. An overrated “team” that can only be proud (?) of two things. The F1 2007 mod (Although I personally prefer the FSOne version) and the Formula E mod (No, it’s not a goddamn simulator. It’s rF1 with a mod. I’ve seen this “simulator” in action personally and it’s nothing special. They didn’t even bother changing the ui or the main menu. I mean, it’s very good because it’s rF1. But it’s not brand new). The day MAK will actually release something else in a fully playable v1.0, the hell will froze.

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  10. WRT kickstarter and other crowd funding circlejerks, ive always found that with products of interest being featured, id just need to sit back and warch others make it succeed. Especially near the end of deadline qhen there is a massive surge of donations.
    Every product i wantrd has succeeded. And all i needed to do was sit back and chillax. For free. I just don’t understand why ppl pledge

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      1. MAKCorp • 6 hours ago

        Ok so I think I need to weigh in here because people need to get their
        facts straight before they start getting on the bash wagon. A lot of
        what is being thrown around here is unfounded.

        I first heard of the OZV8 campaign only very recently through contact
        made to me by Phil and Darren.

        I’ve heard what has happened directly from them, and I understand the
        original artist hired to develop the vehicles did not do such a great
        job and left the team high and dry when it came to fixes. Further, I
        understand it has come to light that the models being developed were
        also sold on to another party.

        The OZV8 mod team contacted us for the continued repair work and
        development of their V8 Supercar models. In discussing this and
        having seen the issue’s the models have we advised the models
        needed major rework to the point where we would preference scrapping
        them and starting from scratch.

        This process was discussed at length and Phill and Darren are covering any
        expenses required to undertake the model development out of their own
        pocket considering their pledge money had been used up on the other
        3D artist.

        As a commercial studio we accept jobs from any client that is willing to
        pay.

        I did notice today that there was information going viral around the
        web in regards to the pledge information they announced recently and
        the change of platforms which has caused the issue – understandably.

        Phill and Darren under reconsideration and following a discussion with
        myself, and given Reiza studio’s recent kind offer on Race
        Department to still allow the OZV8 mod team to still use the Reiza
        Studio’s developed ‘Super V8’ assets have now decided to still
        deliver the mod on the SCE platform as was originally promised. GREAT
        NEWS!.

        Mak-Corp will assist Phill and Darren to make this delivery in full and
        100% unchanged from as committed via their crowd funding program. All
        pledge perks will be honoured and unchanged.

        As I do not want MAK-Corp to be part of this controversy; that doesn’t
        involve us to begin with, I have instructed Phill and Darren to
        communicate with their pledgers regarding refunds and to smooth out
        any bug bears between them behind closed doors not airing laundry on
        the forums and or news sites of the sim racing world, Instead to do
        it one on one in email communications. This said, It is hoped in good
        faith now that the SCE platform is back on the agenda and is going to
        be delivered that the pledgers who were seeking refunds still get
        behind this project.

        Phil hand Darren have agreed in our meetings with them these terms
        outlined above and they will issue an updated statement to their
        crowd fund pledge members in the next 48 hours moving forwards.

        It has been agreed in our assisting and as already mentioned yesterday
        that the mod will still also now be delivered on rFactor 2 and
        Assetto Corsa for free to all meaning it’s a win win for all sim
        racers alike.

        OZV8 – SCE. rFactor2. Assetto Corsa.

        In my discussions with Phill and Darren it has become very apparent to
        me that both of these gentlemen have always been acting in the best
        interests of the project. They have taken on a huge undertaking and
        implementing a method that has never been done before – crowd
        funding / contracting.

        In reaching out to Mak Corp for assistance they were seeking a way to
        ensure they could still deliver the project given the meagre funds
        raised have been used. They admit they were perhaps over ambitious,
        and somewhat naive.

        They are very apologetic for the trouble they have caused over the last
        few days and accept the responsibility for the mistakes they have
        made.

        As for MAK-Corp. We do a lot of commercial client work for many clients
        around the world. modding for us these days is an afterthought, it’s
        a hobby we now do in our spare time which is rare given our
        commercial commitments with our clients.

        It amuses me still that to this day that people still harp on about the
        past and it’s always the same guys. I can’t make this clear enough,
        our commercial obligations with our clientele will always come first
        and as such it always out-weigh’s any free mods we deliver the
        community.

        I hope this will put the matter to rest.

        Like

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