Fanboy Wars… The Punishment Due

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Negativity. Hostility. Immaturity. Three condescending adjectives which can apply to every sim racing message board and community residing on the world wide web. Several have previously attempted to pinpoint the direct cause of fanboys rushing across the land to spread the gospel of their favorite racing sim, yet all have failed to nail the root cause of this problem for one reason or another.

Blind nerd rage? Maybe. Spectrum disorders? Maybe. The lack of any purpose in one’s life? Maybe. Speculation warrants an infinite amount of possible explanations, but never a definitive answer. As the self-reflection among the sim community continues, threads on Reddit pop up directly addressing the hostile environment. Threads discussing a completely unrelated topic double in size as apologists attempt to downplay the flaws of their favorite game. Yet again, another forum post has become “My Sim is Better Than Your Sim.” We are at the point where even a simple YouTube highlight video of an online race is downvoted into oblivion, solely because a group of anonymous sim racers don’t like the event organizer’s website.

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No longer racing, competing, or even participating, analysis of online traffic clearly displays that sim racers prefer to spend their days bitching, moaning, and complaining.

Why? The lengthy answer can be summarized into two major elements:

  • First, Viral Marketing is every bit as real as the paranoia makes it out to be. Genuinely reliable message boards and communities are corrupted by individuals assigned to manufacture additional hype for a racing sim via countless posts praising or showing off the product.
  • Second, the investment required to get started in sim racing does not allow for a scenario in which the games are anything but perfect. As the current crop of racing sims leave a lot to be desired, everyone is left to perform their own mental gymnastics in order to justify the massive time and effort invested into playing video games that simply isn’t very good.

Combining the two elements together, it’s no wonder the sim racing community routinely tries to destroy itself.  

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Viral Marketing

The year was 2000, and Mel Gibson’s upcoming movie The Patriot, a civil war rendition of Braveheart, was not resonating among critics as well as Sony Pictures had hoped. To combat the lukewarm reviews, Sony themselves hired a writer to pen a highly positive review of the film under the fictional name of David Manning, and quoted the bogus review in advertisement campaigns for the film. While Sony was successfully sued for a sizable chunk of cash once the general public discovered this charade, an entirely new realm of advertising possibilities had been accidentally uncovered.

The rising popularity of “user reviews” and online message boards made it incredibly easy for entertainment companies – specifically those producing movies and video games – to flood “fan sites” with overwhelmingly positive feedback. Virtually impossible to detect a genuine user from someone under the orders of a marketing agency, the sheer volume of positive user feedback was more effective in generating hype for a product that any multi-million dollar ad campaign.

However,in the world of sim racing, developers lack the funds to employ an entirely separate marketing firm tasked with praising the game. As a result, the compromise is to instead persuade active community members into becoming what you’ll see referred to as “shills.” 

When the Eutechnyx NASCAR titles were in full swing, moderators on the official message board were given a free copy of that years’ game for their troubles. However, their instructions were pretty specific: don’t let anyone talk about the poor quality of the game. Guys like flyer2359, who can be seen playing the vastly superior rFactor stock cars on his YouTube channel, was notorious for dropping the banhammer on anyone who dared to criticize the shovelware effort by Eutechnyx – even though he himself knew the games were trash.

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Reddit user and avid sim racer Georg Ortner was eventually given a position at Sector3 Studios, and his entire post history on Reddit happens to be nothing but R3E footage. In-game, he’s given the special developer badge, but it’s not clear what he actually does at the company. While I’m not saying his videos aren’t worth watching; they are essentially designed to be viral advertisements for RaceRoom Racing Experience.

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With 8,500 forum posts cementing himself as the most prolific Assetto Corsa community member, Mike Hornbuckle is an Assetto Corsa shill. This is the guy we were getting our secret info from in regards to AC, and slowly leaking it piece by piece in the form of reader submissions. While not under direct orders to spread the gospel of Assetto Corsa, if a developer hands you beta access and all future downloadable content packs for free, you’re obviously not going to publicly shit on them. If you’re predisposed to brown-nosing behavior, free stuff from a game developer will bring that out in a natural manner. Kudos to Kunos for finding the right guy for the job.

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But the most blatant form of viral marketing, a method that will most likely be taught in universities shortly, is the one concocted by Ian Bell of Slightly Mad Studios. Labeling customers as “investors” and promising a return on each investment turned sim racers with good intentions into walking, talking Project CARS billboards. Taking things a step further, VirtualR, a once-trustworthy sim racing news site, was purchased by Slightly Mad Studios and promptly flooded with Project CARS propaganda. When glitch compilations outnumbered raw gameplay videos, the dream of Project CARS becoming a household name burst into flames, and the loyal disciples of Ian Bell were laughed off all major sim racing forums.

The increase in paranoia over viral marketing has put all sim racing communities on edge, as the act itself is dishonest and demonstrates a severe lack of confidence in the product. Look, if your game was good, you wouldn’t have to manipulate community members into becoming virtual disciples. I want Billy Mays to yell at me in the morning when I accidentally leave the TV on overnight, not see his advertisements thinly disguised as posts on a sim racing forum, nor do I want to see his marketing babble passed off as “news.”

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The Investment

To an outsider, flight simulators are held in extremely high regard. Virtual commercial aviation enthusiasts have three complete titles to choose from, as Microsoft’s Flight Simulator X, Lockheed-Martin’s Prepar3D, and Laminar’s X-Plane are all equally adequate choices for airplane buffs with beefy personal computers. Those interested in military operations are unanimously pointed to DCS World. All four titles are feature complete, perform relatively well, and feature an abundance of high quality payware mods spanning the entire history of flight. Individuals who invest the time and money into configuring and learning their flight simulator of choice are rewarded with a fantastic experience; one which replicates the joys of aviation from the comfort of their own home.

Yet, those who dive into sim racing are not met with a similar reward.

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Building a PC capable of handling most modern racing sims is a little more than the cost of a next generation console, so off the bat you’re looking at an adult Lego project worth about $500. As the newer sims are designed to take advantage of higher quality toy steering wheels, a good combination of wheel and pedals will run you upwards of $350, not to mention the time spent researching which toy wheel to buy in the first place. Those who struggle with the lack of depth a single monitor setup provides will rush out to buy a few more, yanking another $250 out of your pocket for a triple screen setup. We haven’t even hit the track yet, and the mere idea of Sim Racing is already an investment exceeding $1000.

Like Flight Sims, these games are daunting for newcomers. Nobody jumps into a brand new setup in their sim of choice and immediately qualify their GT3 race car on the front row. In fact, most struggle to turn more than a few laps at a time without helplessly plowing into a wall. The sheer euphoria that comes with one’s first handful of clean laps at speed is said by many to be the reward for hours of practice. But unlike Flight Sims, once you’ve mastered the basics of driving a car at speed and are ready to begin your journey through what each sim has to offer, the world available for you to explore doesn’t justify the hours you’ve spent getting to that point.

Project CARS and F1 2015, two of the biggest sim racing releases in the 2015 calendar year, shipped with enough game-breaking bugs and glitches to be seen as colossal embarrassments for the genre. iRacing, and to a lesser extent RaceRoom Racing Experience, both serve to nickel and dime the userbase with an excessive amount of micro-transactions under the guise that you’re somehow “more hardcore” for paying a monthly subscription fee. A tidbit unknown to the common sim racer, both games are built on titles released right in the middle of the PS2 generation; RaceRoom has it’s origins in rFactor – released in 2005 – while 65% of iRacing’s code has been taken directly from a game released in February of 2003. Sims like Assetto Corsa, Stock Car Extreme and rFactor 2 display their primitive origins quite prominently as AI opponents struggle to behave in a realistic manner, and should you desire to race against a few mates online, Assetto Corsa puts restrictions on car selection based on how many people are already driving that car in a session.

Imagine booting up a game of Madden, and being told you can’t play as the New England Patriots because too many people have already played as them. After dropping over $1000 to get started, and running hours of practice laps in isolation, this is the reward sim racers are presented with: unfinished games.

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Each customer deals with this monumental let-down in their own special way, and conflicts on message boards arise because of how different each coping mechanism is. Sim Racers who try to simply be happy with what they have fight endlessly with those who believe game x, y, or z is a worthless pile of shit for any number of reasons. Frustration fuels the fire, but fanboy wars are not fueled by the games on the shelf, but rather the coping mechanisims used by each sim racer. Individuals are torn between feeling compassionate towards underfunded developers, and demanding a better product. Some pick side A, others pick side B, and the war begins.

  • Those compassionate towards developers believe PRC is slanderous, hurtful, and full of lies. Those demanding better products claim PRC is a much-needed sim racing media outlet.
  • Those compassionate towards developers believe Kunos Simulazioni are doing the best they can with Assetto Corsa, their first major commercial release. Those demanding better products laugh at how much has been half-finished or completely left out of Assetto Corsa compared to other, more established racing sims.
  • Those compassionate towards developers believe iRacing is right to charge an arm and a leg for cars, tracks and even a monthly subscription as it pays the bills for a fantastic online service. Those demanding better products point out that iRacing is 65% unchanged code from NASCAR Racing 2003 Season, and that
  • Those compassionate towards developers believed European developer Eutechnyx simply needed a few years to shape the NASCAR console releases into something fans would enjoy. Those demanding better products pointed out Eutechnyx had a very tangible history of releasing shovelware for the entire existence of the company.
  • Those compassionate towards developers believe Slightly Mad Studios do not deserve the outright hate they receive for the Project CARS disaster, as the massive crowdfunding campaign was the first of it’s kind, and bugs were to be expected. Those demanding better products are quick to point out that Slightly Mad Studios have pushed out not one but three poor driving games notorious for the exact same bugs and glitches as seen in Project CARS.
  • Those compassionate towards developers believed Ghost Games would revive the Need for Speed franchise into a game worth playing by re-visiting the Underground theme of the successful titles from a decade ago. Those demanding better products promptly rushed to record hour-long reviews ripping on the game for being an awful holiday cash-grab with no style or substance.

Everyone knows these games suck and are nowhere near the level of modern flight simulators. No one in their right mind can honestly sit down in front of a Project CARS glitch compilation and say “this game was worth the $79.99 I paid for the collectors edition.” Nobody in their right mind can say “you know, I’m cool with the fact that I’m sometimes not allowed to drive the McLaren when I race online in Assetto Corsa GT3 rooms.” No consumer is cucked by the developer to that extent.

But after the $1000+ spent on hardware, and the hundreds of hours invested into running laps on an isolated track in an effort to finally achieve a reasonable pace within a few seconds of the aliens dominating each leaderboard, what’s the other option? You’ve already bought the computer, bought the wheel and pedals, bought the monitors, and wasted hundreds of hours hot-lapping by yourself just to familiarize yourself with the basics, it’s a bit too late to say “you know, this game is kind of shit. I mean, I can’t even pick the color of my car online. Fuck this, I’m playing Battlefield with my friends.”

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It’s a tough pill to swallow, and everyone develops their own unique set of mental gymnastics to help deal with it. Some believe their favorite developer will release a magic fix for their sim of choice, and it’ll come bundled neatly in the next update. Others, like myself, hold developers accountable for shitty games and hope they’re embarrassed enough by the posts on PRC to work a bit harder on whatever is currently on the horizon. Either way, individuals from both sides congregate on the various sim racing forums because nobody wants to actually play the shitty games they’ve bought, and it results in a lot of computer nerds flinging shit at each other.

But as I’ve said before, these nerds are not fighting over the superiority of Sim X, Y, or Z. Sim Racers need each other, because a race isn’t much of a race without competition. Instead, they are fighting over two sides of the same coin. Nobody can deal with the terrible quality of games pushed on the sim community, and sim racers are split on how we should address this. Do we sympathize with developers for pushing shitty products on us, or do we hold developers accountable and say “it’s 2015, we like you guys, but you can’t seriously believe what you’re selling us is somehow better than titles we purchased over a decade ago.”

PRC.net believes the latter is the answer.

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92 thoughts on “Fanboy Wars… The Punishment Due

  1. Amen brother Austin. I am most fond of RF2, GSCE and R3E, in that order but I still buy and try every sim that comes to market. None of them even come close to being a very good sim and some barely rise above arcade level, hence the simcade designation that so many fanboys of the lower class, pseudo sims hate.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. >However, in the world of sim racing, developers lack the funds to employ an entirely separate marketing firm tasked with praising the game. As a result, the compromise is to instead persuade active community members into becoming what you’ll see referred to as “shills.”

    Calling shills has also been increasing prevalent in other games, too.

    >if a developer hands you beta access and all future downloadable content packs for free, you’re obviously not going to publicly shit on them

    Non-disparagement contract or something?

    >Investment

    Like any other hobby, every genre of gaming have turned into investment – sometimes worth it, sometimes not. Fighting games require you invest into buying fightstick and travel/registration money for FGC events. MOBAs also require higher investment if you are going into an professional-tier player. And every game has it’s own flaws, too.

    At this point, investing on weeb games may interest former disillusioned sim racers. (Not me, and I don’t shill for any of that shit!)

    Like

  3. Nice article, would be a dream come true, if race sim devs AND PLAYERS got on the lvl of flight sims and simmers, but IMO the ppl that want to play race sims varies so much more than flight simmers Ive found, that are often dedicated flight freaks before even jumping on board a sim, whereas “sim racing” can have all sorts of riff raff come through because “cars are cool brah”.

    Ive never seen or been in shit fights myself at all in flight simming, that I’ve done and followed for many many years, just a lot of very interesting knowledgeable ppl that all understand when something doesnt work properly , dev is told, its sorted, not fucking debating and trying to change laws of physics to suit their fave sim.

    Also its funny that with flight sims, most ppl readily admit say for example War thunder aint a flight sim, players dont care, they may call DCS player OTT realism nerds, but generally dont get butthurt over being told their fave flight game ain’t a sim.

    This doesnt exist in “race sims”,not when you have what GT\AC and Pcars all claiming to be the “ultimate sim” when none of these titles deserve that marketing line, so tell these players that they are not and watch the fuck out.

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    1. Hash, the difference is cars are available to any yoyo that can get a drivers license which means almost every single yoyo that wants one, gets one. Many people, who could not recover from a slide in real life, want to proclaim they know how a car should react in a sim.

      These same drivers that have never tried to or were never able to handle a car at speed want a “sim” that makes driving a racing car at high speed and at the envelope of it’s lateral grip as easy as driving their Honda or Camaro at highway speeds. They have been suckered in by con men the likes of SMS to believe that racecars are easy to drive at the limit of grip and any sim that is difficult to drive at the limit is unrealistic. Of course this bolsters the ego of the average Joe driver that now is easily setting a decent pace around many tracks in even the most nasty race cars like the Lotus 97T. If you were to take any Pcars hero and put them in the real life cars on a track, they would end up dead very quickly.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. >We haven’t even hit the track yet, and the mere idea of Sim Racing is already an investment exceeding $1000.
    what
    so if you don’t spend at least a grand, it’s not sim racing?

    flight sims also utilize a lot of top-shelf controllers and peripherals, and multiple screens, so is it required to spend $1000 to qualify as sim flying as well?

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    1. Flight simming ain’t cheap yeah, infact the software often dwarfs stuff like Iracing, to get the full catalogue of DCS world will cost you more than iracing, but difference is, the devs models and physics are held to terrifying accuracy as opposed to the hit and miss and fudging going on in sim racing.

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      1. So are flight sims, for example the exact nature of countermeasures in DCS A10 is highly classified, so have to “fudge” a bit,but it still works realistically without that data, not having car data aint gonna break camber settings and have heat properties completely whacked, and cause underlying physics to mess up.

        Im guessing getting basic race car properties too is alot easier to get and best guess at, than multi billion dollar designed aircraft,(especially military) infact DCS actually doesnt do any late model aircraft\tech as cant get data, even the most advanced stuff is a couple of decades old in tech.

        Ask Eagle dynamics to do a f-35 and they will say love too, but can’t get data,they wont copy paste a f16 folder and fuck around with it, and say there.

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      2. Simulating the physics of flying planes and of aircraft is easier than all the dynamics for cars. Easier, not for the average person obviously, but in terms of science of simulation on aircraft versus cars.

        Why do you keep talking about issues from AC every time someone counter arguments you? Is that your only source or have a personal vendetta?

        About your “camber thing”, you can read dev’s answer and about the upcoming change:
        Screenshot
        http://prntscr.com/9h38xu

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      3. Tire compounds unfortunately one of those things that fall into the ‘grey cloak of nobody tells anybody anything’. Especially in series like GTE where the manufacturers compete they’re not gonna share what makes their shit work right.

        I kinda want to point out a double standard though. People are saying AC’s too easy and then that the tires are too hard to heat up? Maybe the other sims that give you perfect tire temps all around are too easy and AC’s actually correct. If all you know is “I want my tires to be 75/80/85 OMI” and the sim gives it to you, is that realistic? Or is it like the sim saying “you won the race” and it’s just ignoring your 30 shitty passes to make you feel like a driving god.

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    2. Where did I say AC?, both Pcars and AC have both got issues concerning setups\tyres\heat\camber “hacks”.

      And did you even bother reading ppls results further past that post that you neatly presnt here without context? tests others have done past that post show a very marginal correction but still not right as far as they can see and i’ve personally had a guts full of “testing” AC at moment, so ill go with their results.

      “Simulating the physics of flying planes and of aircraft is easier than all the dynamics for cars. Easier, not for the average person obviously, but in terms of science of simulation on aircraft versus cars.”

      Very good point,however the modeling of systems (Navigation alone) could easily make up the work for the fairly straight forward flight dynamics modeling, and still no excuse for devs to mess up basic fundamentals like heat and tyre wear(Pcars issue, since gotta now specifically not talk AC) when sims a decade ago could do it,you also wont find Hawks or war thunder with “Ultimate, bestest realist sim EVA” on their boxes, like every second race game released.

      Alot of anons today? wish you guys stick with a name,harden up a little and stand by your thoughts.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. How come they messed up? When you tested the temps from AC it was a work in progress temperature model. So you concluded the work of something by judging fully a wip model. What about now? You haven’t judge anything more, is because now is alright? Btw, did you discover the IMO tyre temps in the suspension app? When you said AC doesn’t model those, they were there all the time.

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      2. Yes I did, but still strangely no output for it in tele,which makes no sense at all, and is very strange, and yes the temps are still resulting in underwhelming results, HOWEVER they do appear to tackling it now,and has improved slightly so far, certainly not as bad as SMS just dropping it all together.

        (yes yes wip,thought had finished game though,wish they say oh hay we going back to basics to sort out again, but what ev)

        All this because I mentioned heat and camber, NOT AC, ,if I can point you to article before this detailing Pcars even worse issues in this regard , to the point of admitting dumbing it down, couldn’t you AC fans assumed it was Pcars?

        This article is not specifically about AC and neither are my initial comments, the irony a load of Anons jumping on comments getting insecure on a article about fanboyism is a little ironic.

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    3. “””I kinda want to point out a double standard though. People are saying AC’s too easy and then that the tires are too hard to heat up? Maybe the other sims that give you perfect tire temps all around are too easy and AC’s actually correct. If all you know is “I want my tires to be 75/80/85 OMI” and the sim gives it to you, is that realistic? Or is it like the sim saying “you won the race” and it’s just ignoring your 30 shitty passes to make you feel like a driving god.”””

      Lol far out man, the problem with AC temps as doesnt matter how you drive max camber min camber, you ALWAYS HAVE PERFECT TEMPS,NAY BETTER THAN PERFECT,IT STAYS ALMOST EQUAL ACROSS TYRE NO MATTER WHAT.

      Sorry for caps but this is trying my patience, in other sims all of which that model this act the same, tyre temps are all over place, and to get a perfect tyre temp is close to impossible, you are simply getting as close as possible.

      This is maybe why AC has become too easy, according to temps no matter setup or drive style its always got perfect contact patch down ACCORDING TO TEMPS, which is of course IMPOSSIBLE

      This articel really has nothing to do with this though,so maybe paste what you wrote right here
      http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/camber-effects-in-ac.28349/page-14
      and see what ppl testing have to say.

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  5. “VirtualR, a once-trustworthy sim racing news site, was purchased by Slightly Mad Studios ”

    I don’t believe that’s true. Rob is an employee of SMS and is the owner of VirtualR. However, I don’t think SMS directly owns VirtualR. There is a big difference. It’s still Rob that decide what to put there, not SMS.

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  6. “and should you desire to race against a few mates online, Assetto Corsa puts restrictions on car selection based on how many people are already driving that car in a session.”

    How is this the fault of the game? People who host servers decide if they want 6 cars of x model, 4 cars of y, 10 of z, and 4 of a.
    But if server hosts want 24 cars of the same model, they can do it, then 24 drivers will choose the same car before joining the server. If the server host decided that only wants 12 cars of one model, why should 16 or more players be able to pick that model if is only limited to 12 by the server host?

    James, why are you turning a non-problem into one? Fox News… :/

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      1. What if the server host really wants different cars in the race and not everyone picking the same? Even though you can just select 1 car model and then select how many people you want in your server. Now everyone will pick the same car.

        I understand that you wanted server host giving choices for cars but finite unlimited people could pick the same model. But again, this is just game design and James has a problem with it. Apply yourself for a game designer job at a racing game. Then maybe you could demand how you want the game to be.

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      2. When did they say they can’t figure out how to do it? Why can’t you understand is a game design choice where the server host sets a fixed amount of cars from which players can pick. They can have the whole server with one car or divided by more models.

        If you are not happy with the server host limiting your choice of picking a car or if other people already filled the spots for that car, then you can pick another empty spot with another car, or search for another server, or make your own.

        Why is it difficult to understand that most people will always tend to pick the best car and then the race will mostly be between the same car. This way the server host decides how he wants his race organized.

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  7. Which spectrum disorder leads to 3000 word rants about sim racing? Sorry, I failed pop psychology 101 because I was having fun playing shitty sims.

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      1. Sorry but people in glass houses and all that. I never know if it is just trolling or an epic lack of self awareness where you think you are the white knight taking greedy/lazy/hopeless sim devs to task rather than the negative, hostile, and immature force you actually are, just on the opposite end of the spectrum from the fanboys you so deride. Even when you guys are on to something it is usually too full of spin, poor fact checking and masturbatory self congratulations to be worth taking seriously.

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      2. >and masturbatory self congratulations

        aka circlejerking

        But you’re right. PRC is on the other end of fanboyism. Everyone circlejerking by being on the same subject of hatred towards certain or all sims.

        James, don’t you understand why people defend games? Because other people attack that game and try to bring it down. Some people indeed make good suggestions and bug reporting, but other people (PRC hateboys) only see the “facts” they want to see.

        Do you know why people defend games when others are attacking it? Because they like that game and don’t believe what those guys are saying, or believe they are exaggerating too much too often; is not about how much money they spent in or for the game. Even if everyone one day decided this game is shit and can’t take it any more, I would still play it with my $3k sim racing equipment.

        You aren’t the one who decides for me what game is shit and which isn’t. I laugh at imdb scores and commentaries for Comedy movies. Then I go watch that average rated Comedy and laugh with the movie and the characters, and makes me feel good while and after watching it.

        PRC talking about fanboys, shills, and paid reviews, and advertising, but PRC also lives in its own bubble and reality often is different outside that bubble.

        But I’m going to say one positive out of a past article. About the article https://pretendracecars.net/2015/11/26/ferrari-this-isnt-a-magazine-competition/
        It was written with made up facts and suppositions but positively it brought to attention for the AC devs needing to separate the DRS rules for the different types of cars, which they changed in 1.4 update.
        Btw, this update improved well the netcode, but apparently James reacts to good things by not mentioning them as if they didn’t happen. What’s the point of complaining and pointing issues if after you’re not person enough to report it to your readers.

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  8. Well said.
    Plenty of garbage code being peddled these days. And we could do with a lot less people making excuses for it.
    My only point might be that flight sims are more different and easy than you might expect. Or are implying?
    Don’t need new environments or track or surface models.
    Just air and the plane. Doubt they bother too much with head winds, thunder storms or inclamate weather.
    Just sunny skies, a plane and A landing strip. Pretty basic IMO. But I’m no expert.
    Probably been pushing the same polished engine forever.
    A racing sim is a lot deeper it seems to me? And has still yet to see full development in all areas for consumer gaming products? Obviously, there’s super computers and multi million dollar simulators at F1 facilities.
    There’s a lot more physics to simulate on the ground between tire, chassis and a multitude of load calcs.
    That plane hits the Tarmac once on one purpose built runway.
    I feel like your comparing apples and oranges on this one.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Flight sims are the realist thing you will get in software form, if you think thats easy then ID hate to see what’s hard, they are so real, commercial pilots are legally obligated to put so many hours every few months and just one mistake is license suspension, lol far far more dynamics than air and plane, and often involving modeling a good part of the world too. (whole world in certain sims).

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      1. I’m in agreement that on face value, a race sim is a heck of a lot more complex. So much more going on through the car, the tyres, the track, aero, etc.
        Also, the aviation industry is a heck of a lot bigger, and of more importance. Lots of money in defence and lots in commercial. Lots of lives too, solely looking at commercial airliner sims.

        What I mean is that to be able to test out pilots training, unusual circumstances and emergencies, keep their hours up, get basics and type rating a bit sussed before hopping into a new aircraft. Much more important than a race team, who probably until a few years ago would just roll their car out to their test track and whack some laps down. Gets the driver feeling the g forces and testing his fitness too

        Sure, systems can be very complex, but then we’ve seen nav system makers putting and selling their stuff into the sims, so you could almost make the jump that they are providing some pretty solid groundwork already.

        The other thing to think about is that the plane in flight is going to have a result of the thrust propelling it, and the air it’s moving through/over the skin, with not a huge amount more being critical. The profiles and sections of the aircraft are what is going to dictate it’s lift characteristics, with the air properties and speed/direction giving the variability. Size and position of control surfaces would dictate their effects.

        Just thinking, they don’t have to simulate what’s “behind” the aileron. Just needs to have a connection to your input and limits say.
        With the suspension and wheel assemblies in a sim, I bet that is far more going on. Wheel placement, size, inertia, linkages and pickups, spring and damper locations, steering rack and arm bits and bobs. All that stuff that can change how the car is behaving and the feedback related.

        I hate to think what the tyres in lfs or rf2 are going through in terms of calculations. Look at the contact patch for rf2 and how it moves and reacts. Better yet, get the tyres hot, then sit still for a little bit. Then roll away and see the cooler spot come around as the tyre rotates.

        I’d love someone with a bit more insight into flight sims to share some info, coz I love reading this stuff. I just fix the damned things, hah!

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      2. You fix aircraft and dont flight sim?, dude you gotta hop on board,sorry if got wrong, but if not be happy to help.

        yeah some very good points,I know weather and atmospheric pressures take a complex amount too, but yeah tyre\suspension vs ground you could develop for ever, as opposed to basic flight dynamics, thats fairly well known by most.

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  9. Oh yeah. Also.
    I’d love to hear your thoughts on running other series? Perhaps even a console based one?
    No better way to flesh out what’s legitimately broken and what’s just flame wars.
    Attempt to league race the content on the servers!
    What most racers hope for a game to do well.
    I would think an attemp at Pcars and AC should be a no brainier, as those are the two most popular sims on the market, not including Forza and GT. but those are known working products no one flames on, but fanboys.
    Pcars on console deserves a deeper look, unless this site is “all PC master race,” all the time.
    And AC is relevant IMO if the servers work well and people enjoy league racing it.
    Anything that provides a working league platform that people enjoy should be relavent and applauded for that alone.
    Given the only other option is iracing.

    Like

    1. Austin, in my video(s), you know the one you made popcorn for, I mentioned these kinds of comments ruining sim racing’s popularity…

      Like

  10. People are now starting to realise what I been telling them for the past two years since the very first early access build; Assetto Corsa has absolutely zero simulation value

    Like

  11. rFactor 2 is currently the most realistic racing simulator out there with an uncompromising physics engine and a complete feature list including rain and day to night time transition.

    Like

  12. I was wrong before, Flight sims devs\community to a degree has mirrored race sims in some ways, some examples.

    -The highly anticipated Il2 cliffs over dover,which was going with new publsiher fukcing ubisoft, was a disater state, even after patchs,but base was fantastic sim, and community revamped and completely fixed it 100 per cent, that title with team fusion mods is now considered thee best all round ww2 sim.

    -The highly anticipated Il2 Stalingrad was supposed to be IL:COD without Ubisoft, and second coming of flight sims,however after being dogged by rumors of dumbed down physics, stupid unrealistic “balancing” for MP, and accusations of trying to win casuals\WoT crowd with stupid unlocks etc and all sorts of drama,AND some very dodgy “shilling” enlisted by devs on forums, it released to be mostly true(although “some” still doggedly defend it)

    -A ww2 module was crowd founded for DCS, and can probably guess as million of these stories, guy went dog on deal,long story short as far as know Eagle dynamics picked it up, or some other 3rd party Dev.

    -Various dodgy Paid mods, but to be fair they dont succeed for long as very quickly flagged by community.

    -Rise of Flight,WW1 sim, is hounded by same kinds of issues with its way it does DLC and pricing, as raceroom\Iracing.

    To be fair, the Sims James Specifically mentioned, is free from most mentioned, and are model devs, just thought mention most prominent things, as nothing is ever perfect.

    Like

    1. Oleg Maddox got fucked hard by ubi. He was making the ww2 sim to end all sims almost. Detailing EVERY part of the aircraft so that if someone blew a hole somewhere, you see what’s behind it, and more importantly damage what’s there, possibly.

      But then the publisher did what they always do. “enough time, release it”. Course it wasn’t ready, it tanked. Always the bottom line for the publisher.
      Team fusion are doing great, but it is slow and not at all 100%. The ai are still crazy bad, seeing as ai is always a good one around here. Can’t at all grump about volunteers putting their spare time to work on it, without the proper tools and code.

      I remember reading an article that was only released recently. As in this year. He finally gave an interview,and mentions how much it cut him up. Sorta like your life’s work being shat on and ruined, and pretty much ending his work in that field. Immensely frustrating.

      Sad, because the base is there. These things take heaps of work, especially with small teams. Here’s looking at you Kunos, ISI, and the lfs guys lol.

      Like

  13. I am seriously struggling to see how shilling is a bad thing, seriously I am, the news sites like virtualr get more money from views, now where do they likely most views from, i imagine its pcars and AC because they sold the best. Selling the best means they have more fans, fans like to talk about a game they like, if i went to talk to Friend A talked about Assetto Corsa then its general word of mouth.

    Viral marketing as you call it is because the game has a lot of fans, if rfactor 2 had the same number of owners then the same thing would happen. Dont get me wrong the investment side is extremely edgy.

    I understand that there are problems but this isnt news this article is just reminder that the world is fucked unless you were going for the end of year conclusion sort of thing which i guess i understand.

    I am a assetto corsa fanboy though so my opinion is voided of course.

    Like

    1. “I fail to see how shilling is bad”

      Because you enable devs and encourage half finished. Putting devs in a hug box to make them feel better by shilling and applauding everything gets us nowhere.

      Like

  14. You nailed it James. And it’s not easy to explain this behaviour. I mean, we just seen in your web 60 people like a post burying their hopes of a good game… How can someone be that insane?

    Like

  15. I think it’s true that PRC lives in a bubble. I suspect the vast bulk of players fire up their sim of choice play it have some fun and when they’re done go and do something else without giving a second thought about tyre temps, wear etc. I also believe that upsets those players more engaged with their sim of choice and the forums allow them to vent and rant.
    Without denying the flaws and faults of the modern driving games it seems that despite sites like PRC, which let us remember is a blog site with its own perspective , the majority of players appear quite happy with them.
    Wishing all a Merry Christmas and A Happy New Year.

    Liked by 1 person

  16. Why didn’t the associat0r the biggest shill and viral marketer of rFactor get a mention in this article, he has over 700 posts on steam forums shilling his beloved rfactor, over 800 disqus posts on sites like virtualr, isr and bsimracing again shilling rfactor.

    Like

    1. Because he’s just a normal user compared to the other shills. You’re just victim off the hype some morons are making against him because they can’t prove him wrong and they are emotionnally uncomfortable with him challenging their opinions. It’s called defamation and cyber stalking. Like those impersonators on here who are spamming trying to make him look like the worst guy in the sim racing community. You have two choice. One you believe the hype like a good sheep and you fuck off then. The other one you use your head and you’ll find out he’s more than often spot on and correct. More than all the D-bags who are attacking his personnal integrity.

      Like

      1. PS: you have no idea how many posts he has on virtualr and bsimracing or such because his disqus profile is private and those 800+ posts are related to disqus in general for all sites using disqus, not just VR anf BSR. You’re manipulating numbers and lieing on purpose to justify your hate. Sore loser, big butthurt baby.

        Like

      2. “they can’t prove him wrong” is what he wants you to think, almost nothing he posts is accurate, but it’s better to deal with spam by deleting+ignoring it than by responding seriously as if it merits any thought.

        Like

  17. Haven’t even read the whole article because the section on Horncuckle made me laugh so hard I can’t continue… “predisposed to brown-nosing behavior” ^^

    Like

      1. He spends a lot more time helping out in the bug reports forums than most modders do, of course the guys who post “please read the sticky threads, post your logs & make this bug report something the devs can actually deal with” are gonna have a lot of posts cause a lot of users will just say “it doesn’t work, fix it” and then assume the devs can mind-read or something.

        Like

  18. The funniest part is: they actually said the exact opposite of the article title > No more features, from now on we will only concentrate on bug fixing and engine tweaking.
    People can’t even read… :°D

    Like

  19. If you think this is bad check out star shitizen. The amount of absolute shillery and toxic community is 100% far beyond this. Yes Sim racing is getting closer to this because previous barriers are being broken down and lines crossed and blurred that should never have.

    But then again when does having ethics get in the way of good free shit!

    Like

  20. Totally agree on the points comparing to flight sims, however I don’t know enough about developing to know how good ai can be made to be.
    Personally I get a lot of enjoyment out of the 4-6 hrs a week I get to play gsce or gtr2 and haven’t taken them online as yet as the ai is a big enough challenge for me

    Like

  21. James, I’ve been following this blog since day one and am a fan, however with so many stories covering the shit communities and shit developers pumping out sub-par sims, I have essentially lost all interest in sim racing. After 7 solid years, I have not been behind the virtual wheel in 5 weeks. I even have an Oculus Rift gather even more dust.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I havent opened AC in 3.5 months, R3E Is good but I havent really raced anything on it, GSC is good for practicing for the league. Other than that it’s basically iRacing or bust if you want any type of excitement online. Even that is a sort of ehhh because not all the cars have the latest tires.

      Devs needs to step up and make complete games not never ending science projects.

      Like

      1. What’s the purpose of complete games? People get bored of complete games all the time. Are you saying that if you played a complete game for a year and remained unchanged for another year, you’d still play that game for more? We don’t know obviously, because this is hypothetical, but don’t fool yourself that complete games are the solution and the objective of devs.

        For example games like CS:GO and Dota2, they’ve been updated and altered, new content and functionalities over the years. Millions of people have been following and playing these games for years now. Do you think a complete game won’t lose its attraction in a relatively quick time? But games like csgo and dota2 have never stopped increasing in sales and player base activity since they were released, simply because they don’t let the game stagnate.

        Of course you should have a relatively complete game when is released, but so does AC. It has single player, multi player, a good amount of content and features-functionalities. But is still being worked on, devs aim is always to improve it and do what’s better for the community and what the community also wants (within measure, as kids always want everything but then don’t use most of it).

        The journey of a game being “completed” is much more interesting and rewarding than “here take it, take this complete game and now leave us alone”. “Ok we take it, we will play it for 3 months and will jump onto the next hype”.
        But what’s happening, is that people are able to multi task between games. People are able to dedicate themselves to “work in progress games” like AC, CSGO, Dota2, iracing, raceroom etc. (some more wip than others, of course, but all are a journey in the life of their players and communities).

        Like

      2. Because Forza and GT series have more attraction and motivation to play them than a “complete sim racing game”.
        But sometimes simracers don’t like to play sims every day. They (based on my intuition) play sims a lot at once or twice in a row, and give it a break. For example those ‘hardcore simracers’ who just play sims because of league competition. They practice “a bit” and then just race once or twice per week. Then onto other games or doing things outside the pc.
        Now people who play forza, gt, csgo, dota2, in a way iracing-ac-pcars, they can find motivation in the game (solo or multiplayer) to play them almost daily.

        Like

    2. James liked his post, James feels he did his duty.

      James is trying to prevent people from enjoying their sim(s) of choice and supporting developers of their favorite sim racing game, but has James questioned himself if what he’s doing is the opposite of fanboys but in the end those followers of his word become fanboys against the games they used to like.

      And then when a person like Trimaz finds another game in another genre and has been enjoying this game for half a year now and likes it in overall, then comes another person like James and starts pointing defects here, defects there, calling it shit, and people start doubting if what they liked for a half a year was good or they’ve been fooling themselves. Then a person like Trimaz stops playing games at all because in every popular game he found to like, there comes a person like James telling to a person like Trimaz that he’s been an idiot for playing this game, the devs are idiots, and will continue idiot if he continues playing that popular game.

      I think what he’s doing here isn’t correct, and of course nor blindly praising something is correct.

      But what’s not correct is being so judgmental of others (game itself, devs, their community) and then creating conclusions and predictions based on that judgement, and trying to convince people that’s the truth. Because what’s happening here is that James wants AC to be shaped to his designs, and if he finds things not how he envisioned, judges and labels the game as not worthy and a failure.

      Like

  22. The Star Shitizen subreddit literally gave me cancer. Talk about a toxic community. I couldn’t handle more than a couple of weeks there watching genuine questions and concerns getting pounded to ground by a bunch of man-children suffering from battered spouse syndrome.

    The last post I made was a question on how to purchase additional ships without buying a new pledge pack (a “noob” question apparently) My post was answered by many autists claiming that game development is expensive and I should re-purchase a pledge pack (which was not my questions to begin with). Eventually someone stepped in with some useful information. Still haven’t purchased another ship.

    Like

  23. R3E is actually built on the rFactor2 game engine too, but it’s been modified to within an inch of it’s life, the 2 are barely comparable.

    Like

  24. Not a bad article IMO.

    The next step though is to actually do something about the state of sim-racing, beyond just 1 more article.

    “What?” though, I don’t exactly know. ‘Mean words’ can only do so much on the internet.

    Like

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