Winding Down Operations

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When we ran our article a few days ago analyzing the rather intriguing interview responses of ISI Community Manager Tim Wheatley in regards to the future of rFactor 2, we weren’t expecting a fallout quite like this. Tucked away within the confines of the SimHQ Motorsports message board – a small but dedicated sim racing community which peaked in popularity during the mid 2000’slies an intriguing post warning of a much bigger problem the staff at Image Space Incorporated are currently facing. Not only has the on-going development of rFactor 2 remained rather stagnant aside from the odd track release, apparently rFactor Pro is suffering the same fate behind closed doors.

Sporting a Sahara Force India racing suit in his avatar, and claiming to work with a professional auto racing team’s driver development program as part of his day job, SimHQ user mr_hill has unleashed a snippet of extremely sensitive info that is now being thrust into the spotlight with the help of PRC.net.

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mr_hill begins his post by stating his day job keeps him in close contact with rFactor Pro – an advanced version of the traditional rFactor software intended only for professional auto racing teams and other private entities. According to this SimHQ member, Image Space Incorporated have directly informed his company that they will cease to provide updates to the rFactor Pro software, and instead have encouraged the unnamed team’s engineers to tinker with the software themselves should they run across any further issues. mr_hill believes this radical stance on the future with rFactor Pro, coupled with the worrying interview with Tim Wheatley and rFactor 2’s lack of commercial success, indicate that Image Space Incorporated are preparing for challenging times ahead. Furthermore, mr_hill states that his boss is pissed off at the whole ordeal.

After a familiar rFactor 2 user shows up to the thread in an effort to defend ISI’s reputation, mr_hill remains firm on his stance. Again, he states that his day job involves the use of rFactor Pro, and the most he can say is that many inside the auto racing industry are not happy with what ISI have revealed to them in private, and customers who have once relied on rFactor pro are now looking to abandon the software as soon as possible.

We’ll do our best to post more information as it becomes available.

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109 thoughts on “Winding Down Operations

  1. Sad, but I would agree… ISI seriously mis-managed RF2 and it has been slowly losing players to the point where it is now a ghost town. The software itself is great, just the promotion, pricing and all of those aspects have been horribly, horribly done. I hope it’s not too late – maybe they can find some investors and add some kind of online functionality like iRacing or even Race2Play, but I seriously doubt it…

    Liked by 3 people

    1. mr_hill is doesn’t know what he’s talking about and doesn’t understand the difference between rF1 and rFPro. rFPro which is mainly an R&D tool in additon to driver tool

      Nobody is winding down. http://www.autocarpro.in/news-international/simulation-software-enables-effective-development-cv-dynamics-10201

      Global supplier, MTS Systems Corporation, recently selected rFpro software for its new VDS (vehicle driving simulator) in order to provide an off-the-shelf driving simulator with cutting-edge dynamic performance.

      Like

      1. Apart from the obvious BS thias guy talks ( different company,different operation on a thr 2.0 version engine,not rf2 2.5), Id love to know the other options they would be looking at? as neither Kunos or Iracing have a engine suitable for professional applications, should get that guy in for a interview so he can reveal more super duper totally legit secrets.

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      2. Nobody in their right mind would pay for an rFPro license for just driver training. This confirms mr_hill doesn’t understand what he’s talking about and what software he’s using.

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      3. Exactly. Very sad to see such baseless speculation printed as fact. Getting rFactor Pro mixed up with rFactor isn’t exactly going to do anything good for your credibility.

        In fact, ISI is expanding. Didn’t you see that they’re hiring?

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    2. ISI most definitely isn’t winding down its operations, contrary to what this article claims:

      ISI is fine, like it has been for the past 20+ years.

      Also the claims about ISI looking to make 1st party paid DLC are false:

      Like

    3. ISI is most definitely NOT winding down operations, contrary to what this article claims:

      So PRC article is just plain wrong. Proper research is a thing, you know.

      ISI is fine, like it has been for the past 20+ years.

      Like

    4. The recent rumors that ISI is looking at doing 1st party paid DLC are false:

      Like

      1. lel.lol..The three Musketeers must be Tim,assOC,HEx and their clones pathetic attempt to fill the servers.Also noticed the pw severs and boring selection of tracks in ripFactor2..eww.!

        Liked by 1 person

  2. Well rf pro (another company by the way) is based on gmotor 2, wouldn’t you stop supportin’ it if your ready to let gm2.5 be licensed. Just a thought

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  3. Contact Info

    Kangaloosh Limited, trading as rFpro,
    Registered at The Ashridge Business Centre,
    121 High Street, Berkhamsted, Hertfordshire,
    HP4 2DJ, UK.

    For further information:
    E: info@rFpro.com

    Tel (UK): +44 2380 989 235

    Tel (USA): +1 734 619 7611

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  4. It was my understanding that ISI no longer controls what happens with rFPro. With that said I would not be surprised to see them go belly up; rFactor 2 is a failure. Despite the technological advances, your average sim racer would rather boot up the original, which is shows an extraordinary lack of success in my view. ISI completely mishandled that game and now it’s all about iRacing, Project Cars, and Assetto Corsa. The consumers have spoken and it’s going to be damn near impossible to beat those three. Don’t be surprised to see Reiza and Sector 3 in trouble before too long.

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    1. If you think Sector3 (also hiring) is going down the shitter any time soon then you clearly have little idea about the company and it’s ownership.

      Like

    2. Speaking of project cars:

      • Ford Fusion Stockcar – Fixed a damage issue, tweaks to setups so car is less likely to go on two wheels.
      • Dallara DW12 Indycar – Tweaks to setups so car is less likely to go on two wheels.

      LOL!

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  5. One annoying part of some people not being fully informed when saying something that isn’t positive about rF2, is that it gives Assoc1at0r and hexagramme a chance to jump in, and copy and paste the same ~7 links pointing to the same ~3 arguments, about the game. And then disseminate fanboyism to overshadow their properly constructed but bias/misleading post.

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      1. Even run at 5pm it doesn’t look good. The source textures may be sharp but the rendering kills it. All grass is a mushy mess. There is no depth. The circuit is dull and lifeless, they managed to have Bathurst be dull and lifeless. I cannot stand driving Assetto Corsa for long, despite some fantastic stock and third-party tracks and cars, because of the non-dynamic feel. The only game that feels good is so lackluster in so many other areas.

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    1. Whooops, i guess someone had to take down that shity video because he was called out.
      intentionally misrepresenting rfactor2’s graphical fidelity is getting pretty old now I would say. 😉

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  6. As has been mentioned before, and seems to need to be mentioned over and over again…rFPro isn’t run by ISI…from what I know, the software is licenced out to them, and sometimes the devs have done some small consultation type work, but not a direct input all the time. RFPro came about towards the end of rF1’s lifetime, and was based on the tech in rF1, and from there modified for the specific needs of the big simulations setups, as well as the methods needed for the engineers to do their thing.

    Towards the end of rF2’s lifetime, we may see the same happen, especially with their tyre and chassis model.
    Judging by the way they have actually opened up a permanent job slot, as well as a car and track release just today, I’d say they aren’t dead…just typical PRC, running with whatever gets the clicks…

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      1. When I mention the end of rF1’s lifetime, its the point where the devs had openly finished on it for the most part, the last update, and the focus on whats next, after many years working on just rF1.
        There hasn’t been an indication of that officially…so it’s just speculation, right?

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      2. Yeah it’s speculation but things do look awfully grim for this game. Unless ISI makes some bombshell changes (if they’re even capable of doing that), rF2 is toast. I just can’t see how it can be a sustainable product at this point; it’s unfinished, dull, and no one plays it. I think the reason for Wheatley’s very pessimistic and laconic interview is that ISI realizes there’s not enough to gain from making the big changes that could turn rF2 into a viable sim racing platform. They blew it.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Or, he’s just giving straight answers to questions, in a rather British way…

        The issue with it is that it is entirely a sim that appeals to the hardcore sim racer, the guy who wants to race cars on his computer, maybe in a league. It doesn’t have much to appeal to someone who wants to sit down and blast round for 5 minutes and have a laugh in some very desirable cars.

        Tim mentioned it on their forum, that the whole market has changed in the last few years. They improved upon areas that people wanted them to in rF2, and made a very advanced simulator. But he mentioned that they could have just made lots of content focused packs and sold them as individual games, would have picked up more of the market share.
        He said thats not their focus though and that’s why they will keep working on what they (and others…) want to see in a racing sim, which I can only commend them for.
        I bet it is not going to disappear overnight, they have mentioned that the company has no debt and that Gjon manages things well, over 20 years so far. Plus, the many other revenue streams they have.

        It’s unpopularity is a result of it’s strengths in some ways. They realise that, but all they will keep doing is improving on their software.
        This is where I take issue though, it IS a viable sim racing platform, only iRacing can work as well. The league numbers are big in rF2, just that market is small.

        People look for different things in a race sim, and I’m glad we have various options at different “areas”. It’s sad to see the way people will want to see devs die though, just because it’s not what their preferred sim is. Where else are someone like VEC going to run their championships? That type of thing

        Liked by 1 person

      4. I agree that the tech behind the sim is impressive, and it clearly is a platform leagues have chosen to support. But the lack of content from both modders and ISI themselves is a major problem, as are the lack of optimization and bad UI. It’s a game that doesn’t do anything to excite me, despite the quality of the physics. I honestly feel a bit depressed when I play it. I can’t imagine ISI, who were pioneers in this genre, are happy that many (most?) people would rather just play the original rFactor at this point.

        When you look at the numbers, AC, PCars, iRacing, they have way more people playing. That’s a very poor reflection on this game. ISI might only be gunning for the hardcore crowd, but clearly they’re only getting a small part of that already tiny demographic. And let’s be honest, those people are more likely playing the original rFactor, or iRacing, or Automobilista, or maybe AC or R3E. Now why is that? I suspect there are many answers to this but I know all of the aforementioned games have been more enjoyable to me than rF2 which just doesn’t compel me to come back and play more. I think there is potential here, but the chance of taking advantage of rF2’s strengths and really turning it into a success seem to be getting slimmer and slimmer.

        Liked by 1 person

    1. rFactor 2 was developed from improvements brought to rFactor Pro, and commercialized. If only ISI cared to improve their product. They did so much to address a couple of big complaints from rFactor, only to drop the ball on so many other areas.

      Like

    2. ISI doesn’t market rFpro or do implementation for individual customers because they’re on the wrong side of the planet for most of them. They do however still do the engine development so if ISI stops working it has a significant impact.

      rFactor pro will never be replaced by “rFactor 2 pro”, you’re overestimating how much the commercial and industry versions share and how much of the differences between rF1 and rF2 are even relevant to the pro version (pro customers don’t and won’t use either game’s tire model, for example). There’s no need to have a new name to sell people on a new game for a one time sale in that market either.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. “How about joining the fun then, James? Plenty of people online as we speak.”

        updating now, be there soon, in the room with the new muscle content, literally just knocked off work to play, as aus\NZ really is just 3 odd ppl.

        Like

    1. If this dude sees his face all over PRC and sends us an Email with additional info, the rF2 fanboys are going to be sent into a frenzy. Hence why we run the story at all in the first place.

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      1. Get in a frenzy? What, over some guy who doesn’t seem to know about the actual product he runs? Doesn’t realise who he’s buying his software from? Doesn’t know that the two groups are totally separate entities? As has been mentioned over and over again in the rF2 product forums…by both parties…

        If some new content, a new build in the next couple days, new staff hire, talk about another title, and also talk about more development related to rF2 and it’s content is ISI winding down, I just don’t understand…

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      2. Sad to see the journalistic standards of this site plummet into the abyss.
        You may want to consider adding a correction, or perhaps just take down this nonsense entirely?

        ISI isn’t winding anything down, quite the contrary. Hiring new devs, working on a new project alongside rF2, the so-called “not rF3”, opening up even more opportunities for professional modding teams.

        The future is indeed looking very bright. ISI has been going strong for 20+ years and nothing seems to be changing in that regard.

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  7. Now I think it’s official, Dr. Tim Whatley assumed ISI instead of Tim Wheatley. He’s gonna put a new sticker on rF2 and re-gift… I mean, re-sell it.

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  8. Very dissapointing as i have been pouring hours into rF1. I hope something changes soon. Idk now if i should even invest in the game…

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      1. when someone forms his opinion from playing the demo, he will be majorly mistaken, or majorly correct. Depends what’s his outcome after playing the demo.

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      2. I tested out the demo, and then the same content in AC (conveniently enough, the C6 GT2, Formula 3.5 Renault and current Silverstone are in both)

        With a little setup tweak you can get AC to feel like RF2.
        1) turn down FFB 25-30%
        2) turn up FFB ‘road feel’ to 100%, enable ‘enhanced understeer’
        3) set track to green

        My best guess is RF2 followed in vanilla RF1 footsteps and chose some FFB settings that ‘felt good’ instead of relying on physics like AC’s defaults do.

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      3. It’s the other way around, you idiot. rF2 FFB comes straight from the physics engine, that’s why it feels light on toy wheels. AC is the one that fakes it to make it feel good.

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      4. “Why not try the demo…it is there eh, and then form your own opinion without an outside influence”

        No! Never!

        I will rather have my opinion formed by Empty Box (Reiza and iRacing shill), or BSimRacing, VirtualR and GamerMuscle (pCars and Assetto Corsa shills).

        I will never form my own opinion, you can’t make me! Just because ISI doesn’t use paid shills or hyperbolic false advertising to promote their product, I will never ever touch it.

        I want to be manipulated, I want to be lied to, I want dishonest marketing and empty promises shoved down my throat. I want fucking graphixxx! Sim racing is not about racing, it’s about fancy road cars, cruising down the road grabbin’ some sweet ass screenshots. The biggest sim devs know this, they know where the money’s at, and I’m ready to throw it at them.

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      5. Isn’t associat0r paid ISI shill tho or is he really spending all that time shilling video game all over the internet for free of charge?

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  9. The guy starts as someone that has the insider info.
    Then becomes someone that seems just disappointed with recent ISI interview.
    Then does not seem to know who runs rF Pro and rF2 despite running it.

    Can’t take it serious.

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  10. rFactor2 is ABANDONWARE and SHOVELWARE! Those 3 people in that server are just 3 tumbleweeds rolling across an empty ghost town. ZERO modding support. BARELY any actual first party content. This game is BAREBONES.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. When you enter real data to rFactor 2, it works like real life, it’s not the case for Assetto Corsa, you always have to use workarounds and substitute models 🙂

      Like

  11. Interesting… when some say Ferrari uses rFPro as development tool people go about saying how ISI stuff is better than Kunos simcade technology. Now when someone blames ISI for unsatisfactory support on rFPro, suddenly ISI has nothing to do with rFPro. The take home message I get is ISI is never at fault. It is us sim racers who fail to brag about ISI as much as possible and switch to play something else that are to blame. I’ll support RF2 starting from now. I’ll run always RF2 launcher in the background when I do anything on my computer and Steam will always shows me as playing RF2. Hopefully I can make the Steam statistics look 1 person better.

    Like

    1. That kind of thing would be a reflection of what’s underneath the software. It’s not at all relevant though, just like in most racing series in relation to Road vehicles.

      The base of rfpro is from rF1, so ISI made that, then licenced it out, and then do some consultation work for the company running rfpro.

      So when the company running rfpro announce they are changing the way they do things, etc, that isn’t actually something to do with ISI.

      So I see why some would say what you said. If they (Ferrari) dropped Kunos tech for rfpro, it could be argued that something in the Kunos setup wasn’t quite right. But ISI only made what rfpro is based on, and the little bits and bobs…this can be argued any way really lol

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      1. Ferrari F1 didn’t drop any Kunos tech for rFPro. Kunos tech was never in the running. That’s another thing that PRC got wrong.

        And as stated before, nothing is winding down. http://www.autocarpro.in/news-international/simulation-software-enables-effective-development-cv-dynamics-10201

        Global supplier, MTS Systems Corporation, recently selected rFpro software for its new VDS (vehicle driving simulator) in order to provide an off-the-shelf driving simulator with cutting-edge dynamic performance.

        This is from 2 months ago.

        Like

      2. Ferrari has their own physics and car simulation, but they use rfpro’s graphics engine because of low latency.
        It said so in the article of announcement why they picked rfpro. Not for the physics, but for the low latency graphics streaming. Which has nothing to do with rfactor, nkpro, rf2, assetto.

        Liked by 1 person

  12. rF2 and rF Pro are two different companies, but are sharing all their knowledge as i read on the ISI-forum.

    It´s sad to read this because i like rF2 and what are the alternatives for racing teams? There is no iRacing Pro as far as i know, but maybe the main game is enough for practicing tracks and for knowing what setup changes might be better. René Rast was even practising with pCars and i think, the car-handling in the rain and at night is quite accurate. The breaking-points in the LMP1 are the same and setup-changes working very much like in rF2, motion-support and other physics-output is nice. The real car will be always different and graphics are certainly very important for drivers.

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    1. “René Rast was even practising with pCars and i think, the car-handling in the rain and at night is quite accurate”
      Rain handling is the worst simulated thing in the game. And getting night “car-handling” correct is as simple as lowering temperatures.

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      1. This leynad guy posts some pcars positive nonsense on almost every article now. He also mentioned that he got into ‘sim’ racing in 2014 and is now officially an alien.

        It’s a good laugh but not really worth responding to.

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  13. Well, if they re-release Toban from rF1 without even changing textures (They’re almost all the same as the ones in the 11 years old version of the track), it’s no wonder they have some problems. That new muscle car is a nice surprise, to be honest, but it’s not enough, to be really honest.

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      1. I could spot and point all the things which are 100% a carbon copy from the rF1 version, but it’s too much of a work to bother with a retard like you.

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    1. Oh ffs….there is nothing in that track that is taken from the rF1 track…and if you can’t be arsed to actually provide an example…I just dunno

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  14. With a pricing model like RF2, and the available content out of the box (mods are not everyone’s friend, still) this is no wonder. Fanboys can yell about their quality over quantity playerbase all they want doesn’t change the simple fact it’s a FLOP. I am sad to see this sim go without reaching it’s potential because of a shitty company trying to capitalize on shitty pricing practices.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. good that game is nothing but simcade shit anyway 95% of the code is copy pasted from rfactor which was also a shit simcade game

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    1. Look at the hordes of ignorant, delusional fucktards thinking that hex and ass are the only two people in the world who care about this sim.

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      1. Fucking dusty retarded dinosaur goes “ROOOOAAAARRRRR!”

        Roughly translated to “I may be a dinosaur, but I least I know which sims are actually sims and not just dumbed down broken pieces of shit”.

        Peace out
        -Dino

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  16. Message was pretty clear in Tim Wheatley’s recent interview, best thing we can expect from rF2’s future is paid mods.

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    1. Nope.

      What we can expect is a ton more free top quality content from ISI, like usual, as well as professional modding teams releasing top notch 3PA content, some in the form of paid DLC. On top of that ISI is working on “not rF3”, alongside rF2 which will be supported and further refined and developed into the foreseeable future, as Gjon recently stated.

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  17. Hey Tim gave a great answer to this “article” in the post from Gjon himself telling about what will happen to rF2 from now on.
    I guess this “article” was writen a bit too early heh

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      1. I think that post from ISI would come sooner or later. In the interview and in another thread Tim said they are reducing rF2 support to focus on the “not rF3” for now

        Liked by 2 people

  18. Tried rFactor 2 demo other day, UI was nice flashback from early 00’s, didn’t get my wheel to recognize properly and game kept crashing every time loading track if it was plugged in, performance was dog shit compared to some graphically superior games gg 0/5

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  19. I put a thread up at ISI forums and also on the rFactor 2 Discussion board at Steam and both were Deleted.

    Either something is happening… Or my feeling is ISI and Tim are not going to cater for the Miss Information. Sooner or Later they will reveal the future for rF2/3.

    The game their working on the Moment “Rogue System” is like Star Citizen, Elite Dangerous so i dare say some of their time is taken with that.

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    1. ISI modus operandi checklist;

      A dx9 ugly ver. of Star Citizen release. CHECK
      A new generation a hole kids like hex and assOC will terrorizing Star Citizen, Elite Dangerous forums and Steam comments shilling ISI space game has better space physic, sim or whatever. CHECK
      A new 3PA space modding team releasing rip content from Kerbal space program game. CHECK.

      yup this pretty much sums it up.

      Like

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