Reader Submission #97 – What the Fuck, Forza?


It was supposed to be a triumphant arrival. Forza Motorsport 6: Apex was intended to push the established Xbox franchise into a new era of relevance, finally giving hardcore virtual drivers a reason to go back to the franchise that at one point served as an introduction to sim racing in the first place. By now, we should have been reviewing the game, or at least publishing a guest review indicating titles like Project CARS and Assetto Corsa had something to worry about. We should have been celebrating the upcoming NASCAR expansion pack, featuring over 20 different competitors from the 2016 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series, as well as Homstead-Miami Speedway. Instead, we are publishing an extremely disappointing Reader Submission here on from an individual drawing attention to a very unsettling reality – Turn 10 studios are laughing in the face of their own audience.


Good evening PRC, it’s your boy Zabbzi here.

As we all know, Forza is branching out into the world of PC sim racing, and with that should start a new era of (hopefully) respectful competitors. As a veteran of the Xbox environment, I can without a doubt tell you that the nature of driving is truly awful. Corner cutting, and senseless bashing are two issues Turn 10 have failed to address. As has been addressed at length by Forza community members the poor sportsmanship has even moved to the hotlap leaderboards, where it’s impossible to get a fast time by not cheating.

Enter Forza Motorsport 6: Apex, the free Windows 10 download. In the beta, they have an event coming out in which cutting the course is blatantly promoted. Granted, multiplayer is not out yet, so we can’t accurately judge how the online userbase will behave, but this is a massive step in the wrong direction. I’ve had a lot of faith in Turn 10, but they seem to enjoy taking two steps forward, followed by one step back.


Forza Motorsport 6, the Xbox One title, doesn’t have a penalty system in-game. With in-effective vote-kicking tools, multiplayer races frequently become a war zone, with almost every race ending in a lap one wreck, or repeated ramming from others. There have been dozens of threads on the official forums about this, and after eight months of play, the situation hasn’t gotten any better. Turn 10 basically doesn’t care, hasn’t even tried to fix the lobby tools, nor have they thought about basic safety rating features like iRacing uses to separate shitty drivers from sportsmanlike ones.

Now that Apex is actively promoting “no rules behavior”, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the less desirable players on the Xbox version use it as an excuse for their actions. This is a shame, as Forza 6 has an astounding amount of content, almost 600 cars and 27 locations, but issues with how people play the game are pushing away veterans from the franchise – veterans which helped make it a successful franchise in the first place.

One could make the claim that Turn 10 don’t care about the diehards, so long as the casual car fans keep buying the game. It’s easier to sell 100 copies of a game because it includes a limo or a Hot Wheels car than it is to foster a clean racing environment for the 1% that actually care. Money talks, I guess, but they won’t be getting mine again anytime soon.


That’s a really inefficient, and highly disrespectful operation they’re running over at the Turn 10 camp. I’m not going to launch into a tirade explaining how this is ruining sim racing, instead I’m going to sit Turn 10 down and ask them to think about what they’ve done.

Turn 10 is paying for a partnership with Pirelli to develop an advanced tire model that’s only being used in Forza. They’re also paying physics gurus and computer programmers to figure out how to implement their findings into a virtual environment, and ensure that it works with no major flaws. They’re paying out the ass for a ton of different commercial licenses for various manufacturers, their respective cars, and getting a different group of people to both model those cars in the correct manner, as well as nail each individual vehicle’s sound and performance characteristics. In some cases, the group at Turn 10 are flying around the world to laser-scan various geographical locations, and take thousands of reference photos, to ensure what’s included within the current Forza Motorsport package is the most accurate virtual environment in any modern racing simulator. And that’s before we get into the coders assigned to program track limits, designers tasked with building a compelling career mode, play-testers ensure fuel consumption works by manually doing fuel mileage runs, physics guys tweaking how driving assists are implemented, and a whole bunch of other shit that helps make Forza… well… Forza.

Why, would any company invest so much time in producing something so authentic, expansive, and realistic, only to encourage their users to play a game in the way that ignores literally everything that has been slaved over by the development team?

Picture the guy, or group of programmers, tasked with ironing out the kinks in the tire model. Sim Racers know how much work goes into a simulation element such as a tire model, as evidenced by iRacing’s endless journey in pursuit of perfection. How do you think this team feel when all of their hard work is essentially ignored, and a menu pops up encouraging Forza 6: Apex owners to mindlessly bash into the AI and cut across the track for all of three laps?

Think of the guy who was in charge of coding track limit boundaries to the best of his abilities – lets call him Mike. This guy, Mike, probably spent a whole fucking day at work manually inserting the out of bounds areas into Abu Dhabi. He’s been told to go fuck himself.

Or, maybe, let’s consider the group of people that worked on the Drivatar stuff. This was the big thing when Forza hit the Xbox One – a field of AI cars that was somewhat competent to race against, and exhibited some very human-like qualities. Even in my own trials, getting stoned and running laps on Forza 6 at my bro’s house, these bots are truly a step in the right direction. A group of individuals sat down for several months in a row, and that’s what they did at work each day – they busted their asses to build a compelling set of AI drivers. Turn 10 basically invalidated all of their work.

It’s horribly inefficient for a company to operate like this. Why bother spending the time and money getting data from Pirelli,  licensing 600 cars, building 27 locations from scratch, and programing an advanced level of AI behavior, if not even a month into a game’s beta, you’re going to ask your audience to play the game in a way that ignores all of that? What a gigantic waste of time, manpower, and resources. Like fuck man, just give people a link to the PSX ISO of Destruction Derby 2 and be done with it.



34 thoughts on “Reader Submission #97 – What the Fuck, Forza?

  1. It’s almost like the Forza franchise is a soulless feature list box ticking cash in made by people who don’t really get racing, who knew?


    1. Yet still better then anything on PC. OK it’s missing qualifying and rule flags but…so what

      Its hands down the best looking racer on PC and its just a free test demo for forza 7 using forza 6 assets. The ai is better than any PC sim, the sound is better and in the full car it has all the cars people beg for and never get

      So get over the PC “sim” fanboyism and enjoy the FREE demo that will some day turn into full featured PC sim.


      1. Yes Microsoft I will do as you wish and download Windows NSA edition for this incredible strings free gift right away.


  2. Wtf are you talking about OP? You are whining about not only a free beta but also a free beta which is really an engine test for forza 7 on PC. Omg this free game isn’t everything and then some!

    For a players may not have black flags but after about 2 weeks all the idiots leave and you are left with 2 years of a kick ass community who wants to race.

    Relax… For the love of Christ


    1. “For a players may not have black flags but after about 2 weeks all the idiots leave and you are left with 2 years of a kick ass community who wants to race.”

      Dream on shill…


  3. This just in! A simcade not designed to be a racing sim doesn’t have rules usually associated with racing sims! What a shock!


  4. I can’t wait for d0x360’s reader submission about how all PC sims suck because they use… physics middleware. Guy’s a genius, and a fast racer to boot!



    1. Fuck me, the guy talks as if he is mentally handicapped…and we should take his opinion about pc sims seriously? Get the fuck out of here….


    1. They’re probably just Unicorn cars that they haven’t given out yet. Unicorn cars are essentially rare cars given to upstanding members of the community that can’t be earned normally.


  5. “Think of the guy who was in charge of coding track limit boundaries to the best of his abilities – lets call him Mike. This guy, Mike, probably spent a whole fucking day at work manually inserting the out of bounds areas into Abu Dhabi. He’s been told to go fuck himself.”

    The game literally doesn’t check, there is no Mike


  6. Forza has a fundamental physics problem where when the tail steps out no amount of counter steer with a wheel will recover the car from the impending spin. It’s like the wheel inputs are registered to slowly. This is the input lag most people complain about. This problem isn’t as bad with the controller as you can feed input so quickly. Forza is playable at 270 degrees of rotation but then it isn’t realistic.


  7. Correction: Forza doesn’t use a Pirelli tyre model anymore.

    They did for Forza Motorsport 4, then used a Calspan model for Forza Motorsport 5.

    They’ve now developed their own model for current games.


  8. How delusional are some of these forza console idiots,if you think what turn ten is doing is correct,then pls stay off pc Sims and stick to a gamepad on console.

    Could it be that all this talk with perelli and authentic physics is just a big lie to sucker in money.
    Wouldn’t be the first time a dev team have lied,heck even yoda him self afdmitted in court to lieing because he thought no one would buy the game.


    1. Console racers much better than PC have more cars career and tuning. Forza not so good physics than Gran Turismo.


  9. This game has currently no usb wheel support at all (still to come) or am i wrong? Just wondering how this could possibly be a simracer in your book => for that and other reasons, sure nice graphics and nice reflections and almost as good as in need for speed where all the world is mirrored at any weather and time. They also said “every inch of asphalt is fair game”, i suppose this does mean reasonably cutting the cornes (no off track cutting). Sure not the best behaviour to encourage, but hey this is an american franchise, go and search realism in one of the next upcoming Marvel Movies what we need is explosions and freedom of rules


  10. If its tyre model and overall physics will prove plausible enough, I can give two fucks about cheating not being punished.

    Seriously, if you truly believe at least a part of the team was working their asses off on making it a good sim and the other part was trying hard to recreate the in-game locations as close to life as possible, you should be freaking ecstatic to be presented with an opportunity to get something like that for free. Yet all people do is whining…
    If you don’t believe in the above, don’t make it sound as if you do.


  11. Forza 6 sales were lower than expected and Horizon 2 sales were growing. I think the franchise is going the direction of Horizon 2 were corner cutting and contact is normal. For online they should just copy GT5/GT6 and make cars passive to contact if they are going to plow T1. Personally from a person who enjoys arcade racers with a gamepad I think Horizon 2 is more fun, it feels like a mashup of Smuggler’s Run and Midnight Club but I know this will not sit well with the sim community since a serious sim racing game with Forza content is desperately wanted.


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