Reader Submission #101 – A Reality Check

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It’s becoming a tradition here on PRC.net – one that’s part luck, and part weekly ritual. A Friday afternoon brings us yet another Reader Submission, this time coming from an Australian SuperKart driver who wishes to remain anonymous for reasons our readers are most likely all too familiar with. Today, our boy W.T. offers us a rare insight on how real world race car drivers perceive the overall sim racing community – including their feelings on the constant supply of message board scuffles and miscellaneous drama which have become an ugly staple of this niche genre.


15729-1456011400-5cfacd37b4ef898b88b58ec45a0d7b51.jpgHey PRC. I’m not sure if you want to keep this anonymous or not – probably best to err on the side of caution since the sim racing community is a nightmare, and I’ll probably be harassed, stalked, and more based on previous events if my name is made public. However, I need an outlet to vent.

I need to make this short, since I’m supposed to be studying for exams, but a collection of recent events on PRC.net have taken things way too far – at least in my opinion. Now, I’m not attributing this to something I feel PRC has done wrong – aside from their shoddy fact checking – but because of the downright abhorrent behavior that has been exhibited by readers, shills, community members operating under anonymity, and developers themselves. To quote Filthy Frank, this is not okay in the slightest; it needs to stop now.

I’ll let something slip here: I’m a race car driver in real life, or at least I like to think I fall into that crowd. I race SuperKarts, probably the best form of racing you can get on a relatively restricted budget. And here in Australia, the sim racing climate is significantly different compared to that of North America, South America, or Europe. We’re basically satisfied with whatever comes along, since apart from V8 Supercars, there isn’t a huge auto racing enthusiast community compared to Aussie rules football and rugby which dominate the landscape. Now because of the low amount of Australian sim racers to begin with, most of them are also real life drivers as well. As in, people who actually race real cars and karts on weekends, and enjoy what they do. This means I have a general insight as to how real race car drivers perceive the world of sim racing – warts and all.

Here’s a reality check, and it will most certainly break the hearts of many viral marketers.

Most real life race car drivers only play three specific racing simulators: iRacing, rFactor, and NASCAR Racing 2003 Season – which could arguably fall under the iRacing category. I have yet to meet someone high up on the totem pole that regularly uses – or even knows about – Project CARS, Assetto Corsa, Need for Speed, Forza, and even Gran Turismo. Most of the time, when you see a driver promoting one of those aforementioned games , it’s usually due to sponsorship commitments and getting paid. There’s absolutely no difference from Michael Schumacher or Joey Logano appearing in a Shell commercial to Nicholas Hamilton or Rene Rast playing Project CARS and telling you how great that game is. I’m using Project CARS as an example, but it’s uniform across all other games.

Oh, do you need a more diverse list of drivers to drill the point home? Rubens Barrichello plays Stock Car Extreme – essentially rFactor – and iRacing. Max Verstappen uses rFactor and iRacing. Shane van Gisbergen? iRacing. Most of the NASCAR drivers use iRacing; the computer-savvy drivers stick with a modded NASCAR Racing 2003 Season, but it’s limited to the 30-somethings who grew up with it like Keselowski and Hamlin. Even Josh Muggleton, Australia’s first ever GT Academy finalist, predominantly uses iRacing.

And so when I share the various sim racing drama outbreaks with real world race car drivers, stuff like how developers throw hissy fits and ban people who criticize their product or provide constructive criticism, how a small community is perfectly fine with stalking someone over fictional liveries on fictional race cars, and in general how toxic the sim racing community is, they laugh at not just these isolated mongoloids, but all of us. We are made to look like creeps and dickheads in front of the world’s most talented drivers, and nobody seems to understand how much of a black eye it’s giving us.

How funny is it that the people who do this stuff for real and use racing simulators as a lighthearted distraction, have more fun than the people the whole genre was intended for. This genre was created for people like yourself and I, who have no chance of being picked up by the Red Bull Driver Academy or come with a lot of South American oil money to begin their climb up the auto racing ladder. Instead, we argue on what physics are better, how one game sucks more than the other, and how any attempts to provide feedback to improve a given sim are utterly crushed underneath fanboys and developers calling you a hater with an irrational vendetta. Hell, they’ll go so far as to intentionally mislead a prominent publication for this genre in order to discredit and bring them down. How pathetic is that? We are fighting over cars that do not exist. I repeat, they are not real!

What we need to do as a community, is to stop with this mentality and go back to playing some God damned video games. Wanna make sim racing the absolute best thing ever, with maximum simulation value? Buy the games that have the time, effort, and passion put into them, and only these games. Make it known that blatant cash grabs, rush jobs, aggressive shilling, witch hunting, gas-lighting, and obsessive-compulsive behavior will not be tolerated. Sector 3, along with Reiza to some extent, are probably the best developers out there at the moment. Not only do they make quality games, but they listen to the customers and generally understand what the genre is trying to accomplish. Other developers are more or less playing the role of snake oil salesmen – fighting with other snake oil salesmen over the same small market.

Maybe I could go further, but I’ll allow you to add your thoughts and such. Besides, I need to study up on bio mechanics and body systems.


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Hmm, a couple of parts to address here. I’ll see what I can do.

You’re right in the fact that not many real world drivers are even moderately up-to-date on the world of racing sims. Everyone at my local track knows of iRacing, though not many have even bothered to check it out because home computers are still just a tad too advanced for the average Farmville addict to really dive into something like iRacing. The rest have fond memories of Gran Turismo on the first two Sony Consoles, but some have no clue that Gran Turismo is still around. In the right environment, you can play the Snoop Dogg remix of Riders on the Storm from Need for Speed Underground 2, and a few eyes around the room will light up, but for easily accessible software intended to help train real race car drivers when they can’t physically be at the track, real drivers are almost indifferent to their existence. It’s only the computer nerds of the garage area, guys like Verstappen and Dale Earnhardt Jr., who have gotten into this stuff.

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And when it comes to them finding out about the dark side of sim racing, you bet your ass they’re laughing at not just the sole sperglords causing the issues, but the entire community as a whole. There’s a reason certain drivers are known to participate on iRacing under fake names, why others disable voice chat, or why their message board activity is limited – we may be desensitized to the insanity, but normal people who have an entirely separate life outside of virtual race cars, find this shit absolutely terrifying. Hell, I threw a couple of Ian Bell’s obsessive messages up on my Facebook page the other day just for a laugh, and while some PRC readers begged me to call the psychotic developer for a spontaneous interview at nearly midnight, normal folk – close friends and coworkers alike – genuinely wondered what the fuck was wrong with this guy. To be any kind of race car driver, whether you’re a professional like Dale Earnhardt Jr. or an amateur Superkart pilot like the author of this submission, you generally life your life in a way that ensures you’ll stay far away from obsessive-compulsive nerds, in the same way you’re instructed to avoid pit lizards.

And it’s probably not a good thing they feel this way about us. This is our common ground with our heroes, and instead we are regarded by them as equivalent to a pair of teenage girls fighting over which one of them Justin Bieber glanced at for a fraction of a second during his show.

So how do we fix this?

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Social moderation. I hate sports analogies, because not everyone here is an American handegg fan, but put your God damn offense out on the field for once.

If a developer has a six hour meltdown in your email inbox, do not adhere to his wishes and conduct an interview that will surely be full of public relations fluff. Fire up your pirated copy of Paint Shop Pro and show everyone that the guy isn’t firing on all eight cylinders. If a certain message board personality doesn’t even play the game he claims to love unconditionally, don’t keep this information to yourself as the punchline of some joke on Teamspeak – look up his stats and make it public knowledge that a top iRacing shill has made exactly one start on the service in 2016. If a forum moderator is censoring and/or banning people for not blindly praising a game or regurgitating the “right” opinion, call them out and provide links of them announcing their affiliation with various developers to prove there’s some shady shit occurring behind the scenes. If users gang up to gaslight an individual, or group of individuals for that matter, openly question why there is such a push to do so, and defend the user in question if you know them personally. If there’s a flaw in a game, regardless of how big or small it may be, don’t let anybody apologize for it or downplay it on behalf of the developers in the way some often make excuses for broken AI in a multitude of modern racing sims.

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What’s happening right now in the sim racing community, and the reason things have gotten so out of hand, is that not enough people on the PRC side of things have the balls to rock the boat aside from… well… myself, Sev, and Dustin. PRC gained a mammoth following because it gave a voice to those unwilling to accept the absurd environment the sim racing community has turned into, but provided people weren’t afraid of telling it like it is on a fucking message board, there wouldn’t be a need for PRC in the first place. Your goal, if you want to change things for the better, should be to act in a way that makes PRC utterly useless because the community is policing itself, and not sitting around eagerly anticipating the next PRC article.

Push back against the shills… the asshole developers… the broken games… the ugliness in general… And eventually, it will stop. Don’t let ’em walk all over you, because really, what are forum moderators going to do? Ban 50 or 100 people at a time for pointing out that Assetto Corsa is unfinished, for pointing out that Project CARS is buggy, for questioning why developers are throwing tantrums, for taking a firm stance against shills? That won’t go over well.

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127 thoughts on “Reader Submission #101 – A Reality Check

  1. You do know PRC is the home of the by far most toxic users right? The comment section is a fucking shitshow.

    Just look at the guy spamming “LFS has all the simulation value”. The guy reporting AMS to V8SC for using their trademarks. That amount of antipathy towards sim developers has no place in the community, it’s the kind of insanity that makes this a genre for manchildren only.

    Liked by 2 people

      1. He made two posts in 2015. Wow he contributes so much to toxic behavior wow…!! I bet he made or maintained more fans/players of sim racing on their reinvigorated youtube channel than PRC ever did with focusing on drama and accusing sims of being unrealistic only because you’re not capable of actually providing proof or comparing the sim to real life, only to some distorted reality of how you think a certain car should drive.

        Liked by 1 person

            1. indeed, also if you don’t want people to abuse your anonymous comment bot, don’t offer it. but maybe add a custom captcha n stuff so the robots have to keep up. btw. europe has pppoe connections with changing ip adresses every 24h hours, so a huge following can spam all they want by restarting their routers

              Like

          1. I’m sorry, but pointing out a single example from a single occasion does not permit you to declare a consistent and predictable pattern of behavior on the part of others, all disconnected from one another socially and in different firms.

            This is the kind of thinking and wild reaching that makes PRC so maligned even if there is some good intention behind it. You do as much damage to the dialogue as anyone behind this sloppy intellectualism.

            You know who I think needs to get better? PRC. You guys want to be important, you gave yourselves credit for being the sim racing equivalent of the “No Spin Zone” in this article, but you fail to earn credibility despite having some merits.

            Get better PRC and you might be the right people to help encourage and promote a less toxic sim community. Sadly when you’re making wild allegations and playing into the hands of the devs you malign by being so sloppy you do more harm than good to your message.

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    1. When I said I don’t really feel the physics in Assetto Corsa to be of simulation value, I was comparing it to the way a racing driver and racing team and even vehicle manufacturers can use rFactor and rFactor 2’s physics to develop their cars and their drivers in a way that provides accurate data which they can rely on to use at races.
      To give you an example. All our race team clients and even our series clients, they don’t only use rFactor for track familiarization. They also use it to test setup data before they go to an event, they use it to test potential new part data, by developing new brakes or new engine performances and testing it in the game before they actually commit to building it in real life. rF1 and rF2 provide far higher accuracy for those things than any other simulation on the market. When it comes to AC, their game is marketed for a set audience which covers not only the Simulation side, but the Semi-Arcade side. When I drive rF1 or rF2, I’m always in a serious state of mind, I can’t just go out on the track and run a few laps. It is too simulation based and I treat it as such. I work on my setups, I push to find every tenth I can throughout a lap. I analyze too much. When I play AC, I can easily go in, pick a car and track, chill back and drive using my Xbox360 controller and not give a care. The physics seem very much like Forza Motorsport 5, a console game physics HOWEVER, Kunos has done a great job to mix the two styles of physics to provide more sense of simulation for the simulation fans, but cut down to the wire, rFactor 2’s physics engine is by far the most simulation based physics engine using real life aero and physical data that no other title has come close to.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. I don’t even know where to begin with this article.

      First of all. This isn’t just limited to Racing Sim players. Real race car drivers laugh at us? I’m sure they do. Just like real soldiers & Marines laugh at the nerds who play COD and think they now know military life and are practically real snipers because of how many hours they’ve sniped online. Just like real NBA players laugh at the dorks who think they are ballers because they play NBA 2K16. Just like MLB players laugh at the mouth breathers who think they could manage a real baseball game because they play manager mode all the time, so they know what they’re doing!

      There is a reason there is a stereotype called “Video Game Nerd”. Why the fuck would anyone expect anything to be different in the racing sim world? Also, I wouldn’t put too much stock into the fact that these “real racers” only play iRacing or rFactor. I’m sure 95% of these real racers aren’t computer guys nor very involved in the sim racing community. They’re not geeks who stay up to date on the latest and greatest new thing. No, they hear from a guy they race with that he plays iRacing and he says “Ok…I wanna try it too!” If they’re still playing the original rFactor, then it’s definitely for the same exact reason. Someone hooked them up – had to buy or build the computer for them, bought the wheel and pedals the real racer needed and said “Okay…Here’s the bill for getting you all set up. Let me show you how to use this thing…”

      Lastly, you point out how the whole sim racing community is mocked by the cool kids (the real life racers). Well, you guys running this site are the single worst thing about the sim racing community! How many times do you guys throw in phrases like “my near alien skills…” or “I’ve got the track record at…” like it means we’re supposed to be in awe of you. I could go on and on.

      Like

  2. This site alone is the primary source of encouragement and enabling of the most psychopathic in the community. There is some serious cognitive dissonance going on.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. nope they were here before the site. Associator and all the other shills. This site has documented the downfall of the studios.

      Que Ian bell as hitlers and Generals telling him the game has bugs. But he already knew that right.

      Like

  3. Considering what happened recently.. this website is going to be closed soon… so let’s do all the shit today!

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      1. >implying what you do here is healthy for sim racing.

        All you did was give a place for you and others to shit on the various sims and companies behind them.

        Liked by 1 person

            1. if your idea is that everything is great and every sim on the market is perfect and delivered what has been promised (like the devs do) then why are you here?

              You should be enjoying those perfect games.

              Like

              1. You didn’t see me say perfect, but is also not doomsday. When you like something you like for what it is and possibly for what more it can achieve in the future. You don’t like something when it doesn’t do things you how like. But you can still play and appreciate the game for what it has even if you wanted more from it. Otherwise sim racing would be empty, but it isn’t. Despite the games having flaws, bugs, missing features, you still play these games because at its core they do things you like, which is really the simulation aspect, especially behind a ffb steering wheel.

                Like

    1. When I said I don’t really feel the physics in Assetto Corsa to be of simulation value, I was comparing it to the way a racing driver and racing team and even vehicle manufacturers can use rFactor and rFactor 2’s physics to develop their cars and their drivers in a way that provides accurate data which they can rely on to use at races.

      To give you an example. All our race team clients and even our series clients, they don’t only use rFactor for track familiarization. They also use it to test setup data before they go to an event, they use it to test potential new part data, by developing new brakes or new engine performances and testing it in the game before they actually commit to building it in real life. rF1 and rF2 provide far higher accuracy for those things than any other simulation on the market. When it comes to AC, their game is marketed for a set audience which covers not only the Simulation side, but the Semi-Arcade side. When I drive rF1 or rF2, I’m always in a serious state of mind, I can’t just go out on the track and run a few laps. It is too simulation based and I treat it as such. I work on my setups, I push to find every tenth I can throughout a lap. I analyze too much. When I play AC, I can easily go in, pick a car and track, chill back and drive using my Xbox360 controller and not give a care. The physics seem very much like Forza Motorsport 5, a console game physics HOWEVER, Kunos has done a great job to mix the two styles of physics to provide more sense of simulation for the simulation fans, but cut down to the wire, rFactor 2’s physics engine is by far the most simulation based physics engine using real life aero and physical data that no other title has come close to.

      Like

      1. HAHAHA! You fucking outed your supposed inside man in the Assetto Corsa scandals you tried to create. You post the phone number and family photos of a major software developer. Now you just outed the writer of this reader submission… Literally, the first thing he wrote to you is about keeping it anonymous so he doesn’t have to deal with the backlash.

        You have as much integrity as a fucking crackhead hooker.

        I can’t wait until you really fuck up and end up getting your asses sued. And remember this post when you’re sitting in court trying to defend yourself – I’m sure you’re laughing at this post now. You wont be laughing then.

        Like

  4. Max Vespapan crashed twice in recent Monaco cuz he drive too much the in ac cu rate rf2 ver of Monaco.
    Dale Earnhardt Jr. did say iRacing tires is SHIT.

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    1. he also said it sucked and let to bad habits that are not conducive to real racing. So sim factor 0.
      So Iracingshit period. None of these are really very good.

      Here is an idea – Make a real sim???

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  5. Lol cute the comments above. But honestly this read has a good point. We need to not let fear and stupidity and obedience not get in the way of a hobby we love. Remember it may be a game but its still a HOBBY! Its what we enjoy because like mentioned its something we love and cant do normally because we dont have the funds for it and/or dont have time to put into it all the time.

    Like

  6. So this australian real race knows personally some other australian real racers that play iracing, rfactor, and nascar 2003. So from his limited sphere he thinks that other south american race drivers don’t play automobilista, other american race drivers don’t play rfactor 2, other european race drivers don’t play aseetto corsa.
    And what’s your insight about asian race drivers? They don’t play any sim or some might play any of the current sims? Oh you don’t know that, you only know about a small group of australian race drivers and what sims they play.

    Have you thought that despite some race drivers promoting a certain game there are others or even themselves who play these sims anonymously? Heck, even this guy in this user submission is an anonymous race driver… but broaden your mind and stop thinking that every race driver that you don’t personally know from australia is just a marketing tool and actually could be a frequent user of these sims but not letting common people know.

    Like

    1. Well, Automobilista is a modified rFactor and rFactor 2 is a continuation of rFactor. Plus the author said ‘most’ drivers play predominantly those games, not ‘all drivers play only three games’ because of course, from what I can gather, Felipe Massa has F1 2015 that he seems to legitimately enjoy playing.

      Like

      1. He says most real life drivers play those three sims he mentioned. Like he would actually know… and then says “I have yet to meet someone high up on the totem pole that regularly uses AC, Pcars, and others”. How could he meet other real race drivers if they also keep their anonymity? He only knows about a group of australian race drivers because he met them in real life or possibly even voice chat (or real name in iracing). But that’s where his sphere ends. He doesn’t know about south american, asian, and european race drivers. So he assumes they are just marketing tools for other sims and no one plays but iracing, rfactor, and nascar 2003. James, where you get these guys for user submission -.-

        Like

        1. How do you know he doesn’t know race car drivers outside Australia? And how do you know he doesn’t actually know what most of these drivers use? Plus, you mentioned it yourself, “I have yet to meet someone high up on the totem pole *THAT REGULARLY* uses AC, Pcars, and others” He’s not saying other drivers don’t play other games, he’s saying they use three predominantly.

          Like

          1. Is not plausible that gt3 pro-am, or other lower tier european race drivers know about an australian superkart racer. He just knows about a group of people that play iracing, nascar 2003, and rfactor. Well I’m not doubting “many” of them play iracing or rfactor. What I’m doubting is he saying that there isn’t another big group of racers using assetto corsa, rfactor 2, pcars, automobilista.
            Which makes him think that those publicly known are just marketeers. Well, iracing is known for having several race drivers making publicity for it, but they or even other anonymous still play iracing. So it isn’t far fetched to think that there are many other european racers who are anonymous and play sims like assetto corsa. Europe has many young/old professional and amateur racers, and at this point in time assetto corsa, rfactor 2, project cars are already quite known in this world. But then again, is a habit for some people/nationalities to think that things only happen on their turf and everyone else in the world doesn’t exist and don’t do things.

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            1. ps, I forgot to include raceroom when I was listing sims that aren’t iracing, nascar 2003, rfactor. I bet even our australian superkart racer forgot about raceroom.

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              1. RaceRoom uses an ISI rFactor engine. But what makes you think he doesn’t know drivers who do race in Europe? I’m not saying he’s buddies with Fernando Alonso and drinks Martini’s with Sebastian Loeb, but he’s more in the racing business than us, so I’d have to take his word of what goes on behind the scenes rather than just speculating.

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                1. This guy has it figured out. For example, our Teamspeak server sees frequent appearances by:

                  – Texas Super Late Model Driver
                  – New York Karting Champion
                  – Formula Renault 2.0 driver
                  – Western Canadian Super Late Model Crew Chief
                  – Random Canadian Hornet Driver

                  No, he’s not sipping Martini’s with Loeb, but it’s always surprising the connections you can make when video games are a common interest.

                  Like

            2. You are a moron.

              The point this aussie made in his submission is that while everybody either sporadically plays other games or get paid to do so (Like René Rast with pCARS), few real racing drivers actually use AC, pCARS or any other modern title on a daily basis.

              Instead, they use older games such as NR2003, iRacing and rF1 for their training which are real simulations.

              Literally no real racing team in the entire world uses AC or pCARS for their professional simulators because they’re garbage. Instead, they all use rF Pro.

              gMotor master race.

              Like

              1. “Instead, they all use rF Pro”

                Except that they don’t. Where can we see many using it? If you’re gonna link me some, at least link me some fresh material, not the same that associat0r already used and reused every time he spreads the word about rf2.

                Like

  7. “Sector 3, along with Reiza to some extent, are probably the best developers out there at the moment. Not only do they make quality games, but they listen to the customers”

    No they don’t, I have been telling Sector 3 to change micropayment model for years, but they haven’t been listening.

    Like

    1. James fancies himself a journalist above nonsense like shilling for a company. However Sector 3 have provided him with their current flavour of content for free with press access according to his own admissions in these comment sections and articles.

      What kind of company would stoop to such low levels? One without honour no doubt

      Like

  8. James, Continue what you do, it is fun. Keep that fun : worst site you could possibly visit. :D.
    People take it too seriously. We are talking about video games !

    Like

    1. I completely agree with this comment. This place is a bit of fun. A parody of the whole sim racing world. People seem to be taking things far to seriously here, on the site which self confesses as the worst site you could visit!

      This blog isn’t the problem, the people reading and commenting are the problem.

      Oh and Ian Bell is also the problem. If that was actually him emailing James and posting here and not a troll pretending to be him, I’m actually embarrassed and ashamed for him. Why engage with a blog that is basically a joke, and a parody. Major publicity blunder.

      Keep up the good work James/Austin whoever you are. Keep telling the truth, and calling these idiots out!

      Liked by 3 people

        1. I know but this person is trying to say its somewhat releavant to current events. Completely missing the point of the submission it seems.

          Like

  9. I find it amusing that this guy does superkart and know some race drivers and now he thinks it’s a FACT that no one uses AC for their racing team.

    This is the problem. This site is just blind. These people living in their bubble and they are keep repeating the same thing all the time until they accept as an eternal truth.

    Here in this comment box let me write this: I know real life racing teams who are using assetto corsa.

    WoW who believe this? Obviously no one.

    Children. 😦

    Like

    1. If you don’t believe it why are you here? Delete this site from your favourites and never read this blog again.

      Like

        1. Well, yeah. I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t watch a news program if you thought everything was made up.

          Usually when most people don’t like something, they don’t interact with said something.

          Like

          1. Just like those people which don’t like AC but keep talking about it and keep spamming shit against it? Those are the simulation value experts. Because that’s how they do publicity for other games, ala x-motor-racing style.

            Like

  10. I’d say this article hits the nail right on the head.

    Part of me wants to do exactly what James says; make the problems in this community visible for all, to let everyone know it’s not acceptable and to stop being such a bunch of mentally screwed up assholes. You know, making the genre cool again as it was in the 90s and early 00s.

    Another part of me thinks I shouldn’t because I’m not actually part of this community in the first place.

    For years I have been waiting and hoping for a decent racing game to be released that does everything I want: has good physics, has a nice car selections with multiple series, has a good number of locations and tracks to race on, supports basic features you’d expect from a serious racing game, and has good AI. So I’m waiting, and waiting, and it’s just not happening. Initially when project CARS was announced I was exited. But then I noticed the game was most certianly going to be steam only and I got worried. I noticed the claims of realism were not at all about physics, but all about the graphics and got very disappointed. Then I heard how community members were being banned for no reason other than providing well-needed critisism and I let all hope go Project CARS would be any good.

    There are only two racing games I play these days: Race 07 and Game Stock car Extreme. Why these two? They’re the most modern games that have a decent bit of content and actually just work.

    If you ask me, what racing game appeals the most to me today, well that’d be Raceroom racing experience. But I haven’t bought that, and I never will. That game has two problems: It’s uses disgusting Steam DRM, and costs far too much due to the microtransactions assrapery.

    IF R3E became available DRM free and all it’s content for 60€, then I’d be a happy man and I wouldn’t complain. And I would be supporting the advancement of the genre. But I am just as opposed to microtransactions and DRM as I am to the weird behavior of the vocal members of the sim racing community.

    In practice this means at most I’ll prirate a game I really want, so even the developers that I would want to support, I don’t. I know I’m an exception, but I want to own a game and not rent it. And I want a complete game that simply works for a reasonable price.

    To me, supporting the current crop of racing games is a bad move regardless. The developers need to make sure their products are not a pain in the ass to use. Get rid of the DRM. Get rid of the bugs. Get rid of the cars nobody cares about. Get rid of customer abusing staff. And above all, get rid of ‘community assisted development’. It’s not working, because people don’t know what they want.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Well said.

      I reckon there needs to be a special edition R3E where you can pay the same as a regular game and get some of the most popular content that’s regularly played included already for a somewhat discounted price. I think that would make more sense and maybe more people would get involved with it.

      Like

    2. “Part of me wants to do exactly what James says; make the problems in this community visible for all, to let everyone know it’s not acceptable and to stop being such a bunch of mentally screwed up assholes. You know, making the genre cool again as it was in the 90s and early 00s.”

      And what do you achieve with this? Of course you will report problems and devs will try to correct and make other improvements to the game and simulation. But you want to keep devs hostage because the game has some problems?
      The fact that there ain’t no sim that is perfect everywhere it already tells you making, maintaining, and continuously updating a sim racing game is hard, and is time and money consuming.
      And when you do unreasonable or obsessive criticism you’re just asking for devs to not listen to you or just demotivate them. I don’t know how you’d take it in your place of work if you had obsessive angry critics every day and bringing you down.
      To me the devs are heroes compared to armchair simracing and simulation experts. They all happen to know the right things for the game and how to make simulation, but at the end they’re just armchair commentators. You give feedback of problems and what you think is wrong, that’s positive, so to let devs be aware of things they missed. But the negative stuff comes when you’re all day criticizing, when you’re being unreasonable in your demands, or even demanding at all. Devs also have an opinion and plan for their game. Just because you want something else doesn’t mean you need to get personal with it. Devs also have a right to not agree with your criticism or with how much you emphasize a certain problem. They have common sense too and might know one or two things more or better than you.

      Like

      1. Mr. Anonymous. We meet again.

        When I said “make the problems in this community visible for all” I meant exposing these issues to the sim racing community. Not the developers. The community needs to be confronted with their own behavior, and everyone ought to see the way certain developers are screwing over their customers. Denial is a strong mental defense system, you know. But people can be in denial only for so long. At a certain point they crack. Lending each other a hand to help the community wake up, start over and try to be decent human beings again sounds like a good idea to me.

        @Avidan

        As much as I’m hoping for a DRM free full package version of R3E, I doubt it wil happen. No doubt Sector 3 did their research, estimated that a microtransactions payment model would be the most profitable for them, and followed through with their plan. They’ve seen the huge popularity of Steam, which changed the industry. In the past, developers had to make a game for a retail price of 50-60€, and had to make it good: high quality, feature complete, and pretty much bug free for it to sell well. But nowadays with Steam and all its deals on games, developers have completely changed their strategy. Games are sold much cheaper, and the price reflects the experience you get. They try to lure in customers with fancy trailers and dev blogs, release a half assed game that’s ridden with bugs and has little content. If people like it, they may release some DLC which makes the game feel fragmented and haphazardly thrown together compared to older games. People used to be able to show off a rack of games and lend them out to each other. Now people have no physical copy at all, and all they can show is a huge list of games on a screen, most of which they don’t even play but they bought them anyway because “OH IT’S SO CHEAP WHAT A GREAT DEAL!!!!”

        The result is developers aren’t even trying anymore. People don’t understand the concept of paying more in advance, and getting a higher quality product in return is preferable to the situation we have now. The entire game industry is plagued by this issue. Not just racing sims… though it does make it more painful due to the added cost of expensive equipment.

        It’s sad, but people have voted with their wallet: they want cheap, low quality games loaded with DRM, bugs, and developers who call them nuts. What a time we live in, eh?

        Liked by 1 person

  11. Assetto Corsa is yet another simcade title among Forza, Gran Turismo etc. only more broken and with less features. Aero simulation is fundamentally flawed which results in very unnatural behavior in Assetto Corsa. Again rFactor 2 is vastly superior in this area.

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    1. If AC’s aero is flawed I’d hate to see your take on RF2’s, where things like aero stall aren’t even as well implemented as in AC (not that it matters cause RF2 has no high-df content)

      Like

  12. Assetto Corsa is yet another simcade title for casual gamers, as opposed to rFactor 2 which is a feature complete simulator without any compromises in the simulation aspects.

    Like

  13. The reason there is trouble and drama around sim racing is probably due to the people involved.

    The game developers:Very very obsessive.
    The regular players:Very obsessive
    Very good Players:Very very obsessive.
    Some very immature players who have little experience in life.
    The entitled generation who think that developers advertising a game entitles them to a perfect game day 1.

    To add to this the very good real racing drivers have to be obsessive as well.

    If everything does not go perfectly then tables get turned over.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Mohammad Ali worked really hard and wanted to be the best, he did everything he could in his power and he did become the best, what are modern Sim racing devs doing, half-ass jobs with incomplete features and call it a finished game, people simply don’t put max effort into creating things the way they should be – absolute best.

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      1. No, they are simply doing the best they can with time and money they have. They have to release the game at some point and make the best they can within that time frame. You’d make more reasonable comments if you were to produce a game or anything at all as complex with many features and settings.

        Maybe you’d prefer if sim racing companies would release a game of 60€ each year.

        Like

        1. nah, its just a cash grab, like most of the shit nowadays is, F1 drivers, most are just trash and never succeed, there for the money and attention, and maybe 5 drivers are actually trying to win, most of the racecar drivers will never see success and get stuck in whatever series they drive in because they’re simply too scared to exploit their limits.

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              1. No dude, you have the idea that everyone and everything else sucks but you. You despise and dismiss everything that doesn’t have to do with yourself.

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                1. You seem to take it personally. Modern sims like PCARS and AC suck big time, and we´re stuck on a quality standard from 10 years ago with much better hardware available… of course people are going to critizise them. If it hurts your feelings you shouldn´t read reviews and opinions.

                  Liked by 1 person

                  1. When you read reviews from people that consider these games good/better than the older ones, you get mad?
                    Do you know there are plenty of people who don’t like the games/sims that you do. Maybe that also tells you “your” game isn’t as good as you think or as good as you want to make it appear to people, otherwise it would have been universally acclaimed by players. And perhaps when you want to make it appear to people that for example AC is a bad game or worse than older games/sims, and you have ten more opinions that say otherwise, which one should we accept? Maybe everyone knows about himself. You don’t like that game, is fine. He likes that game, is fine as well. But you don’t get to tell people that they are wrong in liking or considering those sims good. Because then we could also say you’re wrong. So, there’s not much logic in how each appreciates a game or a sim.

                    Like

  14. Here’s a tidbit of news that should be obvious.

    When a game is releasing nothing a pro driver can be said about the game can be trusted.

    That’s not to say real drivers dont play games and dont have games they prefer but that doesn’t mean they think they are realistic.

    Anyone who has drive a car… Any car knows damn well a game can never replicate the feeling of driving.

    Driving isba complex dance of physics and until we can also simulate gforce in our living rooms we can’t even begin to replicate driving in a realistic manner.

    Games are supposed to be fun. Sims, arcade racers…all games.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. When a winner of the Gran Turismo Academy doesn’t even play the game that got him to be a race car driver in the first place. Ouch.

      Like

  15. Thing is, a large number of simracers are retarded individuals who have been able to learn only two words during their education: a shill and a hater.

    If you genuinely like a racing sim and have factual arguments to support your view, you’re labelled a shill.

    If you don’t like a particular racing sim and have factual arguments to support your view, you’re conseqently labelled a hater.

    We must educate those idiots. With fire, sword and the words of Holy Satan.

    Liked by 1 person

  16. “If you don’t like a particular racing sim and have factual arguments to support your view, you’re conseqently labelled a hater.”

    That’s the thing right there, they don’t have factual arguments or analysis. So when someone who disagrees with what they said or stated, they are labeled shills and fanboys, and as someone who doesn’t want to see the truth. And then they also blame the devs for not accepting or agreeing with their criticism or “arguments”.

    Like

    1. How do you have a “factual argument” for what you feel through a steering wheel?

      It’s like telling a chef that his cake is bitter, and him asking for you to provide a detailed spreadsheet where you analyze the amount of sugar per cubic centimeter.

      Like

      1. If his cake is bitter then he added something wrong or not enough of something. Then you check again the recipe and try to remember how you did the cake. Or if some meat is not well cooked, then you can check at what temperature was the oven and how much time you let it cook. All these things have objective explanations.
        And sim racing simulation has and can be more objective than cooking.

        If not, then just stick to your opinion and don’t try to make statements that this is simcade or too easy/too hard. Or that it was dumbed down, especially when devs said what things improved in physics and tyres in the new update, yet you simply say it was dumbed down. How can anyone take that seriously.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Or he just ejaculated in his cake and that’s why it was bitter.
          The tyre improvements are just an excuse to delay proper development so they can push out the licensed cars as fast as possible with minimal further game development. ez money.

          Like

  17. I am an ordinary amateur simracer. But what it means?
    I came to this hobby 3 years ago and don’t fight to protect one simulator vs another (i have to, of course).
    Im having fun taking real approach into this hobby. I don’t see any distraction with that, because i know many strange for outsider eye hobbies, where serious approach make more fun. Aviation and virtual aviation are very close to this.
    What the guy like me looking for? Strong competition for his level, as much realistic and advanced simulation as possible, immersion, and good battle (nah, we don’t battle on virtual Airbus320, for sure). All this thing works good in way to apply real technics of racing. This is the most fun and enjoyable part of virtual racing for me.

    Looking through tons of shitposts is the worst part of simracer life.

    I know many virtual/semi virtual simulation hobby communities and all they have same problem – they want the best experience as possible. And they looking for it.
    So the first people who fight for they experience are natural thing – they just want to get clear view of what is the better. But…

    The way second guy defend – this is what really comes bad.

    If someone want to attack what you love or enjoy via internet – just put this awkward guy outside of your eyesight. Until he start to put proofed good marks and opinions, facts.
    Just like here on PRC.

    After the first guy comes the second, who will try to defend without any real reason. It’s a complex self-human and social (between 2 humans) problem. I think we need facts, honest facts, especially from devs: “here we have not much realistic approach, becasue we are still R&D this, we really looking forward to implement this in future update” – this is way more better then put on landing page bug words – “IRACING IS SIMRACING”. But it is dreams, big changes never comes fast.

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  18. I personally agree with the guy, as a kart driver myself (not superkarts unfortunately) i often see the same view towards sim racing. I have friends who race in single seaters and karts and when i mention sim racing as a hobby they always laugh at me, they always point out that at the end of the day, theyre all video games and i dont disagree with them. This is the problem with sim racing. People fail to realise that no matter how much you try to defend your “simulator”, theyre all consumer video games that you play with a toy wheel. People take this shit WAY too seriously. I remember when i showed a video to one of my friends whos an European X30 Kart Champion of InsideSimRacing reviewing DD wheels and he was amazed that people are spending so much money on a video game.. I’ve spoken with James before on races at race2play (James might know who i am) about the whole subject of expensive steering wheels and ill say it before, people spend more time arguing over “my gaem haz better physix!!!!!!!!” and shopping and buying expensive equipment than playing the damn game. People sound so autistic arguing weather their sim is better or that a certain wheel is better, its so pathetic, on every forum i constantly see people advising to get this game because its more realistic or this wheel because it will make you faster. Thats why my friends who do racing with me laugh at sim racing as a whole because they just see it as nerds who bitch and fight over their videogames. I’ve found myself taking a step back from sim racing because i simply can’t deal with it anymore.

    Like

    1. What is kart racing or any other form of motorsport if not just entertainment and a hobby? So are videos games, and simulators take it a step further to close on the experience of driving the car without your body being inside the car on the real track.
      Sure in real life you make quite a lot of money in the top tier classes of racing, so it becomes your profession, for the drivers and for the engineers.

      What is motorsport if not just using a vehicle of transport to race against each other? What is football if not just a game of 22 people trying to put the ball in the goal?
      You know we can ridicule pretty much anything that is not with the purpose of gathering food, water, and making shelter. That is basically the only thing that matters for us humans. Every thing else is just a pastime until death. No, just because you can earn millions of dollars from autoracing, you’re not more special than a dude simracing at home.

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        1. Yes doing real racing is more exciting, more dangerous, more costly, more reward maybe as well. But you’re not more special than the person enjoying or caring about the racing sim at home.

          I just don’t understand why some dudes doing real life racing have to mock and take away any value from people that care about racing sims. What they do in real life is just a sport, is just a form of entertainment as well. Maybe they shouldn’t take much seriously the “nerds who bitch and moan in sim racing” but sim racing and developing sims is serious enough. Or do they think the people who develop the sims, who create the software, who makes physics, sounds, visuals are just a joke? Well, most likely the people behind the sims or even modders know more about cars than a race driver in real life. Or do the race drivers also call nerds and don’t take seriously the engineers and staff from their race team? I don’t think so. Those are the “same people” that create these racing sims. Which makes sims important enough and are a valid alternative to experience real life racing or at least driving these cars without being there irl.

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          1. I think people who take it so seriously deserve to be mocked. It’s a video game. Sitting in an actual car, on an actual track is worlds away from hanging out in your living room playing a game on a toy plastic wheel. But you’d never know it talking to some sim racers.

            Liked by 1 person

            1. You know there are plenty of people who do track days or even amateur racing that also play sim racing? Either because they see benefits or just enjoy driving or racing cars and tracks in a sim they don’t have possibility irl.

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    2. Its a game for you, it may not be game for another, but simulator6 serious as simulator, not the “shilling at all costs”.

      And it not cost as one video game. Even software on every sim/game will cost 5 – 6 – more times when it comes to buy additional content.

      10 years ago no-one even dream to ride 3DOF or 6DOF at home with affordable racing simulator software. But everyone agree, that we have some topics in modern racing simulators that work near perfect.

      The money for sim rig with DD wheel cost less then full GT4 season. And not many like to ride karts, i know. Adrenalin and excitement?

      Like

  19. Did your real racer buddies try any of the modern sim racing games (or for more than 5 min)? Or they just talk out of ignorance thinking we are playing “mario kart”?

    Like

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