Reader Submission #102 – What Crazy Italian Laws?

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I sincerely apologize in advance for what’s slowly becoming a barrage of Assetto Corsa articles, but a group of sim racers appear to be wound up about recent events within the Kunos Simulazioni message board – and rightfully so. Initially restructuring the vast modding community located inside the official Assetto Corsa forums due to “ego problems” and “members not using the sub-section as intended”, Kunos Simulazioni quickly pointed towards a strict set of Italian laws as the real reason behind the sudden change after the immense backlash became too much to handle. While I’m not all that well-versed in specific Italian laws, certain individuals who read PRC.net on a daily basis are, and we’ve received a Reader Submission today from someone who can clear things up for us.

Or not. They’re just as confused and skeptical as everyone else currently is.


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Dear James, as well as the rest of the PRC.net staff:

I’m quite pleased to write to you this morning. My name is [REDACTED], a recent reader of yours that happens to be an Assetto Corsa modder, soon-to-be mechanical & automotive engineer who’s currently studying for a degree at a University in Rome (can’t be more specific than that, stranger danger exists), and I’ve also had a lot of quarrels with both Italian Copyright Laws for my mods, as well as Assetto Corsa shills… Or as the apologists like to say… “Passionate fans.” Please keep me anonymous on this, as Stefano and Luca are still on the prowl against “haters.”

Sorry for the mini-resume, it’s just to establish what I’m about to tell you next.

So, in regards to Kunos Simulazioni and their recent excuses when it comes to Italian laws preventing an in-house modding community… They don’t stand up at all. In Italy, we have a bunch of Laws and Decrees made by the Italian Parliament about the protection of intellectual property online, plus a Presidential Decree (almost like an American President’s Executive Order) that governs what can and cannot be posted on message boards based out of my country.

The 2003 Legislative Decree #70 (D. Lgs. 70/03 for short) distinguishes online message boards into three subsections – and only “Protected” are monitored to any real extent, usually just to prevent defamatory remarks from getting out of hand (accusations of crime and such):

  • Public: Absolutely no moderation, and anyone can post without registering. Think of PRC, for example.
  • Protected: You can read comments and threads, but you have to register to reply. RaceDepartment, for example.
  • Private: You have to register to see anything at all. Prime example of this would be the aforementioned Assetto Corsa forums.

Anyways, the most important thing you need to know about this Decree, and how it relates to sim racing, is that website owners are not responsible for the content that is uploaded or linked to by the users. Not only does F1-Classic operate in this fashion already, this has already been tested as well in the Court of Turin; some guy was uploading old Italian Soap Operas to YouTube, the video sharing service was taken to court, and the court ruled in favor of YouTube – they were not obligated to preventively control the activities of a single person. If an IP holder complained, any kind of legal action should be taken up with the individual responsible for the uploads. The same would apply to the Assetto Corsa forums, and Kunos Simulazioni in the event of pirated material appearing. However, if Kunos receive a request to remove links to certain material, like a Forza rip or something, it’s in everybody’s best interest to adhere to those requests – a task basically any forum moderator can execute in ten seconds with administrative controls.

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Under this decree, Kunos isn’t responsible for anything their fans post on the official Assetto Corsa forums. If Turn 10 gets frustrated at discovering a Forza rip or two floating around, they can ask a Kunos moderator to remove it, or pursue the individual who originally uploaded it, but hardly go after Kunos to the extent we’ve been led to believe by their recent announcement. The precedent has already been set – there are no mythical Italian laws that can cause them problems; it’s quite the opposite, the laws actually protect them.

I’m giving you this info because I’m sick of the environment that has developed around Assetto Corsa, as well as Kunos Simulazioni. If you think the international forums are bad? Oh boy, you haven’t seen the Italian forums, I reckon! Over in Italy, Kunos is considered to be some kind of “wonder boy.” Multiplayer.it, the biggest gaming news site in the peninsula, labelled them as Italy’s “National Pride”, since they’re the only one’s openly standing against the rest, calling them “the new standard of corporate competitiveness in gaming.” Yes, I still laugh hard at that joke. The first time I read it, I almost busted a lung. Every Italian gaming company has to operate like Kunos because – in the journalist’s eyes – they are the ones pushing the envelope, making sim racing even better, and are the shining beacon of hardcore sim racers. They’re supposedly the one’s speaking to the big companies, at the grown-ups table, making the Tricolor be seen on an international level.

If you even dare to suggest Assetto Corsa is unfinished at best, you’ll be seen almost as an online terrorist, an anti-Italian moron. Yes, it’s that bad. And when I had a thorough look through Assetto’s physics files, I cringed. Badly:

  • Water and Oil Pressures are badly implemented. I know we can’t use the Navier-Stokes equations because they’re too complex for both modding and general PC use – they would suck up all the CPU calculations just to calculate the formula – but an exponential algebraic formula (an “E” to the power of “X” type of formula) is more than enough to compromise. Kunos uses a straight line.
  • There’s no heat damage. The Fourier’s Law for heat doesn’t exist in this “simulator.” If you take away the RPM knocking damage, you can basically leave a car in Assetto Corsa perfectly still, at the maximum reves the engine can tolerate, for all of eternity, and it won’t explode. Even without a radiator fan. A simple linear equation, like rFactor features, is perfect for the job, but here? Nothing.
  • Aerodynamics are all sorts of fucked up. Usually in engineering, we use the complex fluid dynamics programs, where we 3D scan the object, or model it in Blender, and then run a simulation to see how the airflow moves over the solid object. Most of the time, we use lift, drag, and momentum coefficients, since calculating them directly is prone to errors and is extremely time consuming. Kunos use the coefficients in an astronomically stupid way – those are adimensional, which is okay, but they also use a quadratic formula, which is just plain wrong! The only “squared” item in the formula is air speed, not the whole thing! No wonder why they had to add a big-ass invisible spoiler to the BMW M3!

When I mentioned all of this on the Assetto Corsa forums, I received a ban. Not a surprise, to be honest. I hope some of my writings are of use to you. I’m all for progression and competition in sim racing, but this is just plain ridiculous.


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So two major subjects to touch on here, but I’ll try to keep it short as the submission says more than I’m able to enforce with the customary response.

First, in regards to Italian Laws, I knew I had a right to be skeptical when the reason for restructuring the modding community drastically changed based on the community’s response. Again, only after the backlash due to Stefano’s original explanation did the reasons behind the sudden change of heart shift to “wacky Italian laws sim racers couldn’t possibly understand” – so that raised a few red flags. And now that neither reasons given make any sort of sense – one of which can be outright proven wrong – I’m struggling to understand what Kunos were hoping to accomplish here. A wide array of Assetto Corsa players aren’t happy with Kunos, and in turn Kunos gained… a less cluttered forum?  What purpose does this serve? I mean, the guys at RaceDepartment are certainly happy with the increase in traffic, but this all just seems to be a pointless attack on a portion of the community that didn’t do a whole lot to deserve it.

Let’s be real here, they’re supposed to be attacking us here at PRC.net, not random modders chilling out on the forums showing off the cool stuff they were building in the hopes that Kunos would present them with contract work.

And second, I’m aware there’s some weird physics stuff going on behind the scenes – from stuff simply not being modeled, to rudimentary functions that can’t match what the isiMotor or Papyrus engines accomplished almost a decade ago. A lot of people will jump on me for being a fanboy of opposing simulators, but you can’t just show up to the sim racing scene with a piece of software that’s a simulator in name only, and expect the hardcore guys like myself to blindly praise it. We appreciate having to obsess over the little stuff like pace lap rituals, engine vitals, brake fade, and proper airflow behavior, because it provides a level of challenge unlike any other. More importantly, we notice if it’s not there, because the precedent has been set. If I’ve been doing my vitals checks during the pace lap for three or four years straight, and I buy the “latest and greatest” game where all of that stuff is absent (and the developer loses his mind at people when they ask where it went), I’m going to start wondering what’s going on.

If you just wanna hotlap a bunch of different Supercars with semi-realistic grip levels, Shift 2 Unleashed came out in 2011 with a much bigger marketing campaign and a more diverse roster of cars – so I’ll end this submission by asking why weren’t the current crop of Assetto Corsa diehards sucked into Shift 2 instead? It’s more or less the same game.

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144 thoughts on “Reader Submission #102 – What Crazy Italian Laws?

  1. Austin please just delete that final paragraph. its just No. NO NOOOO

    If Assetto corsa could be the worst game in the world but its still light years ahead of Shift 2.

    Hell its an insult to call Shift 2 a game. Bloody bad rats has better consistency than it.

    How the hell did it do everything worse then the first game, same engine, mostly the same physics, same car models, same track models. HOW SMS what the bloody hell.

    If shift 2 was thrown out on early access right now it would still get flak and well it would get likely get taken down as no one would believe the buggy mess got so many licenses.

    This isnt a defence of AC in any way, its just shift 2 doesnt deserve the right to be related to another game, ever. EVER

    In case its not blatant i have a slight distaste for shift 2.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. “If AC could be the worst game in the world it’s still light years ahead of shift 2”

      Oh really, have you got data to back that up, you can’t just dump on a sim without at least motec and a video,am I right guys? Quf will be along soon to back me up and tell you off too

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      1. If you have the need to resort to sarcastic comment about this matter, is because you never presented any proper analysis for a sim and real life, or even just for a sim. So now you’re trying to belittle the need of proper comparisons with video and/or other type of data, like motec.

        The only time you made a video was when the entire of assetto corsa community and the devs knew the tyre temperatures weren’t working well, by a big margin, at the time of 1.3-1.4 version. Thank you captain obvious for your contribution to make Assetto Corsa better.
        Hash, you need to learn from people like David on how to make proper contributions: http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/self-aligning-torque-sat-relationship-vs-slip-angle-and-camber.122596/
        This might be too advanced for some, but even since 1.5-1.6 game version you keep claiming many things are wrong in AC, yet you never made at least a video to demonstrate that. But this time don’t make a video of an issue everybody, including the devs, know about it.

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        1. “Thank you captain obvious for your contribution to make Assetto Corsa better.”

          Ha, the irony of this comment is too much, was so obvious I had to link and explain basic concepts, to ppl that had blamed me for this “obvious” problem for pages, I had taken it to official forums with page links to info saying exactly what I explained and observed,provided screenshots, motec data and links to back it all up, lord kunos eventually showed up and acknowledged theyd look into to it, a tiny post which all my report warranted,but instead I was accused of stupidity, bad driving and vendettas,cause it was so obvoius right?believe it or not I also acquired a annoying little stalker on youtube and other various places after that, fucking spastics, so “obvious” yet non of the fanboys appeared to grasp it.

          http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/camber-effects-in-ac.28349/page-25

          Just for the record, difference between tyre spread across vastly different setups and compounds remain underwhelming and practically the same,regardless of variables, still making it a useless indicator of car balance/setup etc, a method used from track day amateurs to F1 engineers.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. “Just for the record, difference between tyre spread across vastly different setups and compounds remain underwhelming and practically the same,regardless of variables, still making it a useless indicator of car balance/setup etc, a method used from track day amateurs to F1 engineers.”

            This would be a good video/analysis for you to make.

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    2. There are a few mods that can make that game quite bearable such as the Unofficial Community Patch and the PTMu mod. I also found a neat little camera mod that allows you to shift the cockpit to get a better FOV and hide that terrible steering wheel animation lag. While its terrible at times, these little patches and mods actually make it a somewhat okay addition to your sim collection.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. What about the brake temp/brake fade of rfactor? (1/2) ”brake fade rarely happen because of the parameters used on the .ini of each car” (drive a street car/track say kind of car moded or original)

    puncturing a tire? (in LFS you can blow your tire) ”good luck with that”

    transmission temp? (in LFS you coud blow the transmission) did rfactor have that? what about rfactor 2? ”lol”

    OMG LFS ,an ancient sim is better?

    I know that wen you are critical about AC it givyou alot of visit in this blog but come on man.

    I am a fan of AC but i am not a blind fanboy , i know AC isnt perfect and is the most unfinish sim out threre but no sim is perfect (well if LFS where modeable…) chill up guys

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  3. Stefano should just hit the kill switch. Delete everyone’s accounts and make up a new excuse about international internet forum laws. Why even give a fuck? Just do it … and fuck ’em all. Hell, don’t even give notice. Just take the money and run. It’s not like they’re really gonna fix the shit everyone’s crying about. Go buy some chicken wings and a hooker. Chase ’em all with tall beers. You ain’t gonna please everyone, so why not just go please yourself.

    People on their high horses about a fucking video game. You forked out a few bucks for a pseudo racing “simulator.” Big fucking deal. Ain’t like investing the kind of money F1 teams put down for their simulators, and even the drivers will tell you it ain’t close to the real thing.

    So, if simulation value is what you’re looking for, get in your Honda and squeal those tires at the next stop light. Grip & rip the steering wheel to the side to feel those “G’s” (ooh ahh). Brake real late and real hard. Maybe see if those cars behind you avoid you into the runoff areas (ie. sidewalk). Feel your head get rocked back into the headrest as you slam the gas pedal. Heel & Toe. Heel & Toe. Shift all kinds of crazy up & down the gears. Imagine the Ferrari V10 note as you bounce on the throttle waiting for the light to turn green. Feel the real life simulation value.

    AC all going to shit … who gives a fuck. Stefano sure don’t.

    PRC … keep stirring shit up. Get all these AC Shillary Clintons all hot & bothered. Damn entertaining to read their butt hurt shit stains smeared all over every PRC comment sections. I mean, these chumps gotta vent somehow, eh? Sheit, Stefano ain’t gonna hear none of that. PRC is doing a public service.

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  4. Does anybody know anybody called Stefano other than this guy, who is not a gay hair dresser or fashion designer, its a very gay name.

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  5. gotta love all these automotive engineers and exceptionally skilled shining stars of kart racing submitting their stuff to PRC lol

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    1. well not saying they are “experts” but Stefano himself tough everything from books available on Amazon .. why somebody else with real life experiences, access to the same sources and degree of engineering shouldn`t be able to be on or above his level …

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      1. because Stefano is a nazi, he calls himself a Lord, what did you expect? His little slave cucks post shit on forums for him.

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        1. “JesusOfSims”

          he calls himself a Lord, what did you expect? His little slave cucks post shit on forums for him.

          Oh the irony

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  6. And in a couple of years people are complaining there hasn’t been a new racing sim out for years…why would that be? You people deserve to be stuck with rf1 for another 10 years….

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        1. well most people understand that me enjoying AMS doesn`t affect them enjoying AC for example … those people usually don`t bitch around internet about everything … 1% of loud “whatever you wanna call them” players don`t make whole comunity bad …

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  7. A really credible article this is not. For a hc simracer you sure don’t know much do you, and for an AC modder or engineer your source doesn’t really know anything.

    Engine temps are not functionally implemented and nobody has claimed they are. Yet he complains in detail about this, trying to sound fancy..

    And if your “reader” was any good MechE he would know that a quadratic equation cannot produce a force unless parts of it are correction factors which they very often are. The whole thing may look wrong but is more accurate with good inputs than the basic one we know.

    What are you trying to achieve PRC? How does bashing AC or PCars or Reiza improve the simracing community? Currently only damage is being done. With popularity comes responsibility, and you James seem to be too selfish to understand that.

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    1. TBH the quadratic statement is not really coherent.

      If it’s just using arbitrary dimensionless coefficients, squaring them is completely legit. The square of a dimensionless value is still a dimensionless value, the equation is still valid.

      It’s only the parts of the equation that have units attached where squaring them would be inappropriate. In this case there are four of those – air speed, angle of attack, wing height, and yaw. If they can prove one of those is squared (well, other than air speed, which indeed is squared in the most common approximation) then that would be a problem.

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      1. I have not seen how AC handles it’s aerodynamics, but there indeed are many different, even unorthodox, dimensionless or quadratic ways to achieve a formula which simulates airfoil behavior to reasonable accuracy. This claim about AC aero being off seems to be pulled from thin air (pun intended), even if it were true.

        Don’t know, can’t tell, but GT car aerodynamics seem to be one of the few places where AC feels very good.

        This article still is very much leaning on the hate blog side of things… which is not good in any way. Also what does James do in his free time? Or has he any, since these articles are so damn long and frequent 😀

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  8. “so I’ll end this submission by asking why weren’t the current crop of Assetto Corsa diehards sucked into Shift 2 instead”

    Why didn’t you yourself play Shift 2 for 300 hours instead of AC?

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    1. Check NoGrip. The “Ultimate Save Game” by xxxx Oggy xxxx is mine. Also have at least two or three YouTube vids of it up, but couldn’t take more cause my PC was average at the time. I most certainly did play Shift 2. Don’t think I hit the 300 hour mark, but the PTMu mod made things a few steps in the right direction.

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      1. Shift 2 with that shitty mod is a step in the right direction? Just like playing mario kart with a paper wheel is a step in the right direction right?

        Al credibility lost right there…

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        1. and you want to claim that AC is going in the right direction since the beginning? sounds like a fanboy right here.

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  9. > why weren’t the current crop of Assetto Corsa diehards sucked into Shift 2 instead?
    You can’t brag about playing S2U (despite it being a very competent racing game), but you can brag about playing AC. One was shunned and has an awful reputation, the other was hailed as the king of sims since the tech demo went out.

    It’s just insecure guys trying to be part of a community.

    See: PCARS fanboys, CoD haters that love BF, people commenting here sucking your dick, people commenting here hating your ass, etc.

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    1. Clarification: S2U is overall a competent racing game, needs a NASA PC to be somewhat consistent and only really shines with PTMu.

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  10. Why James has 300 hours in AC if it has all kinds of fucked up aero, water and oil pressures simulation when Shift 2 was there all along with better car roster?

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      1. The earlier tyre models were easier in several circumstances. Like in high speed bends or two bends one after the other that change direction, like the schumacher s corner, where you could easily take flat out. With the more recent tyre model is also harder to save the car after a point of slide. Then the tyres which you said were very good in 1.3-1.4, they weren’t. First, the temperatures never increased properly to go from cold to optimum grip, the tyres remained mostly on cold grip. And again in 1.3-1.4 version, GT3 cars were several seconds behind the real life time. They improved the model in 1.5 update. Just remember that slicks and gt cars aren’t the same as street or semislick tyres on cars without downforce and other components from GT2/3 cars.
        Is it perfect now? I don’t know technically, but devs already hinted more updates will probably be made to it.

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  11. It sure would be nice if one of these days one of these stories went “I asked why they did it that way and he said x” rather than “I called him a retard and then he banned me”

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  12. I can see why Kunos did this…

    The modding forums is where the questions were posed more often than not and the answers weren’t always “Should be in a coming update” due to Kunos staff being open about omitting features…

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    1. You’re saying the modders asked Kunos for questions inside 3d models, tracks, and liveries work in progress threads? Good luck trying to find a needle there…
      The how-to sections are still open for modders to discuss between themselves or with devs about modding. Like it was intended from the very beginning.

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  13. I’ve never played AC, but this guy is just an undergraduate. It would be like me, back in the day, trying to diagnose an astrocytoma. Not going to happen son. University can make you cocky. Just wait until you graduate son.

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    1. Stefano showed the code for brake fade that he has been working on during his last YouTube Live Stream. He even created a little app to help Aris setup each car so it shouldn’t take too long getting all the cars setup with it.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Thanks for the heads up, watching his last stream now. Thermal transfer between the brakes/tires sounds like it would be interesting.

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  14. But where is this going to end? Are we witnessing the slow and steady demise of simracing altogether, because a “true” sim is too “niche” to be financially successful, worthwile, and/or capable of rewarding the amount of work involved? Are simracers becoming content with the mediocre and turning into domesticated beasts? I feel as though every release of a “sim” in the past couple of years has been quite anti-climactic and frankly, I kept alternating between titles until I sort of put one out of the equation after the other because I grew tired of it. However, for me, features trumped graphics and licenses. But how can I assert authority over whether this was the objectively right thing to do? There are so many factors to consider like truthfulness to the genre, fun, personal preferences, that I almost forgot to go with my gut. I appreciate the effort of criticizing, partly because it helped me see what I really wanted from a sim, but is the severity and the way it’s done really helping the already sickling community?

    Liked by 2 people

    1. I think all elements of the sim racing community are toxic, and either too vehement in their blind support of the developers, or too severe in their criticism. I think it’s somewhat ridiculous that the current generation of sim racing games are such weird, unfinished, unfocused titles. That is a serious problem; you’d think someone would be able to make a good, general-purpose driving sim but evidently that’s too much to ask.

      With that said, anyone expecting a consumer entertainment product to have 100% accurate physics is asking for too much. The games are not, and probably never will be, comparable to professional simulation software and any contention by the developers that they are is mere marketing hype. These studios have not the manpower nor the financial resources to make that happen. It is, at the end of the day, just a game. But the games could, and should be better.

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  15. I like how these “reader submissions” are written in the same style, use the same expressions and make the same attempts at humor. Almost as if they were written by the same person.

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    1. Obviously it’s james who write them, only fools think there’s a different person behind them.

      “apologists” “shills” “shining beacon” always the same expressions from the same person, there is no Italians who are actually using those words, typically north american kind of sarcastic and irony BS words..

      Look at how he slowly are praising arcadish game while he’s becoming even more harsh to the simracing devs, I think he has some sort of agenda against simracing style as a whole, he’s a Canadian so I won’t be surprised to see some big Arcade names “EA/T10” behind all that.

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      1. So you’re saying a random Canadian guy in his early 20’s has advanced knowledge of Italian decrees created when he was eleven years old, and knows a bunch of mechanical engineering babble…

        But in the previous article I’m supposedly 45 years old, unemployed, and barely able to hold a job at WalMart?

        ?????

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        1. Well, considering how easy it is for you to get double crossed *aka forza corsa* I’m not entirely convinced you yourself even know who you are

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          1. If developers want to waste time sending people to intentionally feed us false info, all it means is that PRC is a lot more influential than people like to think.

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        2. You’re running pretend race cars with pretended journalistic skills, so it’s perfectly fine for your to pretend being some sort of engineering high grade student at Rome university.

          You can stop right now, It’s too obvious and don’t even try to defend indefensible lies.

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            1. Until you inevitably do a name drop on them.

              Face it, man. You always want to have it both ways.

              You want to be considered both a populist gaming pleb and still be a “sim racer.”

              You want this site to be thought of as merely a blog and to not be taken seriously, yet still be a credible news outlet to be trusted with its integrity.

              Seemingly every day you flip-flop on these ideals depending on how it will benefit you

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        3. I can say that James doesn’t write these. I’ve submitted an article he posted and the only thing he did was clean about 2 grammar mistakes. Which is understandable.

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          1. So you are the moron who thinks something else rather than speed is squared in the wing formulas? Congratulations. I can see a bright future for you.

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            1. Actually, I believe the original author’s argument is that since ONLY air speed is squared, using a quadratic formula is incorrect.

              Regarding the legality argument, a single decision (in the same jurisdiction?), unless it has become established precedent, is not necessarily enough to justify maintaining the forum as it previously existed. Especially if Kunos has become the national treasure the author mentioned. They certainly don’t want to face scrutiny over a sub-forum.

              That said, I’m not sure why they didn’t address the matter transparently, nor why they waited so long.

              Perhaps the console publisher’s (505 Games?) legal counsel reviewed the matter, and issued an ultimatum?

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        4. “So you’re saying a random Canadian guy in his early 20’s has advanced knowledge of Italian decrees created when he was eleven years old, and knows a bunch of mechanical engineering babble”

          Considering the amount of bullshit in the article yes,it’s either you or be the guy sharing the evening toilet cleaning job shift with you at Walmart.

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        5. lol being mid20s in that deteriorated state of yours is even worse.
          Still, its funny to come around here and watch how you make a fool of yourself over and over again

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      2. RE: the apologists/shills/shining beacons thing, people learn language from each other. If you don’t know the english translation of “fan” and you’re reading this site you might learn that it’s “apologist”

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    2. Because James edits them for grammar and punctuation? I know so, my reader submission has been given that language and has never been tampered with to fit James’ point of view.

      If he didn’t, you’d be making fun of the grammar and such, wouldn’t you?

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  16. The contributors here at PRC have such a hard-on for Assetto Corsa. It’s actually hilarious. They get so mad because a very sizable percentage of the sim racing community has fallen in love with AC and the PRC folk think that’s bollocks because “it’s not finished!”

    I will admit that total fanboys can be obnoxious, but PRC refuses to say there is anything good about Assetto Corsa at all. I think a big reason AC has gotten so popular, so quickly, is because people can see the amazing potential in AC. Yes, it’s missing features that were in sims 10 years ago. Yes, there are probably quite a few things that could be calculated more precise or whatever.

    So, why would it be popular then? Because the actual driving experience is arguably the best available right now. The modding ability and modding community is hands down, without question, the best in the sim world. The graphics range from very good to excellent. Same with the sounds. FFB opinions vary quite a bit, but I don’t think anyone would say AC’s FFB is awful. If they do, they’re an idiot. You may not like it. You may think it’s the worst among the major sims you’re entitled to your opinion but saying that it’s bad is just plain wrong.

    Assetto Corsa is an extremely well rounded sim. There are certain things that many people think they’re the best with (driving, modding, maybe even FFB). It does lack quite a lot of features tho. The thing is people can wait for those features to slowly be added because they’re enjoying the best driving experience available. So their car doesn’t stall? I’m sure it will in time. What would you rather have? A car that stalls and a tire model that’s shitty because the one code developer Kunos has was busy making sure the car needs to be started and it can stall or a tire model that gets better and better, more and more realistic?

    It might not be the “best” sim available right now, but it’s nipping at its heels and with each version it gets closer and closer and once it completes what it set out to do, it should be head and shoulders the “best” sim out there. In my opinion it all starts with the driving experience. AC rocks in that arena. All the bells and whistles don’t mean crap if the driving experience sucks..People see the amazing potential and passion in the developers and they’re happy to be along for the ride as Assetto Corsa slowly becomes the king of racing sims. I know I am.

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      1. So you picked only “potential” from the above post? While missing the whole point.
        The point is that many people enjoy driving experience and the core features of AC. If one can enjoy with the core, then waiting for secondary features isn’t crucial for the enjoyment.
        If you can’t enjoy the core despite having all “hardcore” features, what good does it make for the end user? Especially when the title development is stagnating and there are no clear plans.

        Like

          1. I guess your idea is that if dlcs wouldn’t exist in AC, somehow the game would have all the secondary features needed and the game would be complete and finished… I doubt that. But from my perception, Kunos working on dreampacks also opened more space and motivation to improve the simulation and the game. These things go hand in hand. We wouldn’t be on dlc 4 if the other dlcs weren’t popular enough to cover the costs and investment for the next one.

            I wonder if you’d accept any positive user submission, but below you’d say your piece of negativity, of everything is wrong, they don’t know what they’re doing. They must listen to me if they want to succeed.

            Like

          2. None is forcing you or others to wait. Why don’t you just go to other sim racing title you enjoy more with all the missing features you need? Or you could write something useful, like guides or a proper news, something positive, instead of hating everything.

            Like

              1. You are still missing the point, when you already enjoy the game, you don’t need some kind of special optimism about coming features to be happy with the game.
                Either way Kunos usually tell what features or major changes/fixes will be added.
                For example recently: VR, brake temps, AWD changes. There used to be quite a lot of information in Stefano streams (although their plans are usually short term like few months ahead).
                For example take ISI, they tell they are working on features like clutch model, rain effects, yet 3 years later no changes. Even Kunos is better at adding features.

                Like

      2. 1. His behavior.

        2. His lack of potential. Run first/gunslinger QB’s have always faced an uphill battle in the NFL, and as defensive schemes have evolved, with faster, and harder hitting personnel, it’s only gotten more difficult.

        Sadly, to be a successful NFL quarterback these days, you need to be a credible pocket passer, and Manziel isn’t.

        And just to be clear, I’m a Manziel fan, but that doesn’t change reality.

        Like

        1. Run & Gun QB’s have always faced an uphill battle in the NFL, aside from Steve Young, Russell Wilson, Michael Vick, Donovan McNabb, Randall Cunningham, Warren Moon, Steve McNair, Doug Flutie, Cam Newton, and Kordell Stewart.

          Actually hold on, that’s two or three good mobile QB’s per era since the mid 80’s.

          Liked by 1 person

    1. 100000000times THIS and nothing more. The driving/racing feel for the car in AC is unbeatable.

      and no racing game is finished! not even iRacing which engine is 20 years old now

      Like

      1. Well, that is just an opinion and everybody has one. I myself fail to see the awesomenss of AC and it gets pretty much zero racing time from me. I find rF2, R3E and AMS/GSCE far more engaging, but thats again just an opinion. AC excels on the amount of mod content, looks decent and has terrific triple monitor implementation, but those are pretty much the positives for me. I launch it every once in a while, mostly after patches or to test some mods, but that’s it. On the other hand i don’t bother to bitch about it. I bought it for about €22,50 during a sale in early access and I haven’t wasted any money on DLCs, so its not a big deal. It is just another mediocre and boring game in my Steam library among so many others.

        Liked by 1 person

    1. Well, the French showed people the best moment to surrender during a world war, so they can save their people and get their country back some day 😀

      Like

    2. James,
      you should change message “The comment box is not a toy. ” to ” The comment box is not a trash can.” Apparently too many trashman come here to spill garbage.

      Like

    3. At least we don’t have the highest number of mass shootings done by civilians against other civilians like in the US (It was 998 with the Orlando one, but looks like another one happened earlier today in Texas so it’s 999 now?). We didn’t arm ISIS and we didn’t invade Vietnam because we were bored one day. And we didn’t nuke people with giant atomic bombs to compensate for our small dicks. And we didn’t shoot missiles at our own WTC to excuse an invasion of Iraq and the rest of Afghanistan to steal their oil by exporting our freedom and democracy. Oh, and we don’t have Trump running for president or Clinton, which is under FBI investigation for fraud and other things.

      ‘MURICA, FUCK YEAH!

      Oh, and before I forget.
      If it wasn’t for useless italians who discovered the americas back in 1492, you wouldn’t even have a home. Some would argue that the vikings discovered NA first, but oh well.

      Like

  17. Didn’t even know AC even modeled (egine?) water and oil pressure. That’s news for me.
    W
    hat’s wrong with squaring the whole areo term? If you only want second order in there anyway, what’s the difference except for having a different numerical value for the coefficient?

    Like

    1. I don’t think they’re actively modeling water and oil pressure, but only for the dashboards of certain cars that have water/oil pressure gauges to not remain empty or static. So is more a visual representation, nothing that affects the cars. Same for engine heat or clutch wear.

      Like

      1. Typical James, publishing this without fact checking even a little bit. And the submitter claims to be an aspiring automotive engineer. Should go engineer washing machines if he doesn’t understand that aero forces go with second order of speed.

        Like

  18. This throwing shit to AC and Kunos is really tiresome and every title have enough flaws to through the same amount of shit at it. rF2 makes a few things better, but so many things even in physics and simulation are much worse. It´s just no alternative for me. AC is still in 1.x state and IMO the overall best car-simulator today even some other titles does some things much better. But they suck in other disciplines where AC is superior. Breaking points and corner-/top-speeds in iRacings GT3-class are complete nonsense for example, i hate the FFB, the physics are questionable and lap times decrease by driving many laps with one set of tires (not really matching RL). And this shit costs 10 times more if you want to enjoy it.

    Like

    1. PS: Since AC 1.5 the GT3 lap times, breaking points, corner speeds and top speeds at Nordschleife are fucking close to RL when comparing onboards. I think iRacings Le Mans is still not published, because the bad physics are so much off, it´s to obvious on this track.

      Like

    2. Criticism AC are entirely personal, James has been humiliated forum AC by Stefano and large number of users, everyone agrees that AC is today the simulator with the most good base, great content , scanned tracks, existing graphics, good sounds, FFB very good and obviously a very good physics.

      The author of the blog always repeats the same lies in all articles and has Arf2 reference when it has been a total failure.

      Like

          1. IDK man, when plebs show up with basically no experience in the genre aside from a lone Milestone-like product, it’s hard to take what they say seriously.

            Like

            1. As I put below, I have run in Rf1, GTR, Nkpro and mostly LFS. I have met many people these sim and most have opted for Assetto Corsa.

              If this is not simulators … What are they?

              I have much experience and hours in the simulation. They have passed through my hands on a DFGT, G25 and two G27. While I recognize that there are many gaps and errors (there are in all simulators) Assetto Corsa is elsimulador that more offers and that more progress.

              Like

        1. James, you are acting like a kid, who don´t want to realize that your buddy-simulator is getting eaten by an overall better one. You never get banned in the AC-forum by questioning things in a polite way. I did it even harsh, because the GT3-performance was way off before the 1.5-update, but they fucking fixed it even all the fanboys said, there is no problem and i´m just a moron who can´t drive well enough. Stefano & co. are fanboys themself, but they still listen to critics, and when you can deliver enough evidence like me with official lap times and onboards, they will try to fix it (one day). I criticized for example the bad break performance of the Ruf RT12 in other forums and seems they fixed it. Criticizing Forza in their forums will not fix a shit. Turn 10 don´t care at all. SMS seems very ignorant as well, but Kunos is always improving bit by bit and i appreciate it.

          Like

          1. PS: I got a 5-days ban at the AC-forum for saying, instead of deleting download-links of the Nordschleife-rF2-rip, they should try it out and feel, who much better it is. Kunos improved the Nordschleife-tracks by far since that posting and when trying out the rF2-rip, it´s not better anymore. They banned me for saying that, but improved the physics and track. Should i be angry of the ban or more happy they fixed this shit?

            Like

              1. This is the best track i´ve ever experienced in rF2 with the best weather-options of traction like “almost dry, fast line”, which means very slippery outside the line for the first one, two laps. But to hard to drive as well with slicks and would be more accurate with less traction loss issues. Real drivers are no gods.

                Like

            1. You should try the new SIMULATION_VALUE parameter, figure out the optimal value and then post it on the AC forums. I’m sure they’ll take your input into account in the same way as they improved the Nordschleife.

              Like

  19. Your behavior is equal to them. I know many players that coincided in Rf1, GTR2, LFS, Netkas … If this is not simulators, of which you speak to us?

    Like

  20. Alright, all of this blabbing has to be goddamn put to a stop.

    1. I AM the Engineer that wrote to PRC and addressed all of the points James wrote in the article. I know what the hell I’m talking about. I’ve repaired plenty of times my lowly 1999 1.5L FIAT Seicento after taking part in amateur-ranking rallies in the Southern Lazio, for fuck’s sake, so I think I’m more than qualified to say WHERE a racing sim goes flat on its ass, thank you very much.

    2. James has been too kind in getting a hold of my English grammar: I’m Italian, English isn’t my first language at all, and I don’t have many occasions to speak in this Language other than the ‘Net. He pretty much had to rework my message into something you guys could understand, and to give it a nice, proper “article” shape. So the style is ever so different from what I wrote, but the message is the exact goddamn same.

    3. Yes, I’m an undergraduate in Mechanical/Automotive Engineering in Rome. That’s not an excuse to diss my opinions. Judge the merit of the opinion itself, not who spoke it. If anyone of you thinks I’m wrong, prove it to me with engineering, physics and maths, not with other opinions. I want hard and provable facts.

    4. “Only air speed is squared in AC”. As we say in Italy: “Have you forgotten the brain in the drawer, this morning?”

    N is the normal push relative to the lenght of the body, A is the tangent one (BOTH ARE SECOND-INCOGNITO INTEGRALS) and x is the attack angle (or, in racing, “RAKE”):

    Lift (L) = N*cos x + A*sinx. If x is less than 8° (in simracing this is almost always the case) the A*sinx can be put out.
    Drag (D) = N*sinx + A*cosx. In this you can’t put out anything, because attrition by air is having a lot of influence on the flow.

    Cd (Drag coefficient) = D / (0.5*air density*Maximum transversal area of the object*Air speed squared).

    Cl (Lift coefficient) is the same, with L instead of D.

    Assetto Corsa, instead, has THIS:

    Cl: ((D / (0.5*air density*Maximum transversal area of the object*Air speed squared))^2 ) – 2ln(air speed). Which is BULLSHIT. It does give too much aero load at low speeds and not nearly enough after 180 km/h. The aero load is HALF the real one between 200 km/h and 205 km/h, and then drops in an inverse-logarithmic way.

    Now come to me and say that THIS BULLCRAP is okay.

    5. Now, for the heat: Fourier’s law for heat states:

    T(in position x) = ((generated heat^2 * Radiator thickness) / 2*medium’s heat transmittance ) * (1 – (position^2 / Thickness^2)) + Superficial temperature.

    This is the main formula EVERY PROPER SIM abides by: from GPL to NR’03, from F1C to RF2. AC doesn’t have it at all. It counts the radiator as a single block of aluminium/iron/whatever that gives away heat from the inside to the outside, when the car it’s not moving. Usually it’s assumed the radiator’s middle as position, so the T(x) is the maximum the radiator can develop for that generated heat.

    NOTE: It’s a bell-shaped function, not a straight line, but linear equations approximate it just fine.

    For a real moving radiator, the thing is quite bastard to calculate. Oh wait. IT ISN’T. Just take in the bypass factor (BPF) that says how much air is bypassing the heat transfer while passing the winglets in the radiator (as in “doesn’t change properties nor temperature):

    BPF=0,46 ^ R, where R is the number of winglet rows in the radiator’s thickness. For a car radiator, usually, R goes from 20 to 25, or the air will stagnate in the radiator forming a block that will overheat it.

    Now, for the air moving into the radiator, we have:

    q (heat power dispered) = air mass flow (kg/s) * (1-BPF) * specific heat capacity for the gas with constant volume * temperature difference between air and radiator.

    See? Absolutely not that hard at all.

    The heat ransmitted from the oil/water system to the radiator is totally another story: if you want to hear it, I’ll be more than glad to prove you how easy it is, for a constant flow. You know, for Bernoulli’s law, if the speed is constant, so it she pressure and vice-versa.

    Now, come here and try to say that I’m wrong. With hard facts, not PR crap.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I guess cleaning toilets with James at Walmart is the best you can hope from your life. But, yes, you can pretend you can add here in PRC if that makes you feel better.

      Like

    2. I agree. AC physics need a lot more work, as in its current state, AMS, rF2, and even iRacing have more simulation value than AC. Instead of addressing this, Stefano deletes the modding section to his forum, and gets butthurt by the reactions from doing that.

      Like

    3. “Assetto Corsa, instead, has THIS:

      Cl: ((D / (0.5*air density*Maximum transversal area of the object*Air speed squared))^2 ) – 2ln(air speed).”

      You fucked up son. This is not the formula for AC…lol. Try again.

      Like

    4. HAHAHAHAHAHA “The aero load […] 205 km/h, and then drops in an inverse-logarithmic way”

      Hear that everyone, the guy has seen aero loads drop past a certain speed. You know one key thing of engineering is that when you come to a conclusion that doesn’t make any sense the first thing to do is reconsider your analysis before spreading shit.

      Like

    5. Nice post.

      But. You are wasting your breath with the oil/water temps, since AC doesn’t “do” anything with them, and they never claimed to have that functionality implemented. Complaining about them is like asking what the simulation value parameter does.

      Secondly, that is not how AC does it’s aero. The do not follow that formula, and are not half what they should be . You must have missed something.

      Stop being stuck in thinking you are right and everyone is wrong. Being an engineer is also to be an academic, and that means the ability to not write hate mail to a hate blog when you feel something is off. Study and learn some humility as well. It will take you further than writing to a questionable blog.

      Like

    6. You came to the right place to unload your shit.
      What about coming up with some prove for your assumptions on what formulas and algorithms AC uses to calculate stuff??
      Yeah, sure, you can’t, thats why you came to this place. Austin is happy for whoever joins his army of the braindead and lazars to support his feud…

      Like

  21. You are talking crap about aero mate, if it was broken at such high speed all open wheelers would be totally undriveable. I checked aero loads when I first started modding in 2014 and they were fine.

    Like

  22. Hello engineer…
    Here’s some tips about the italian juridic system guys, for the non italians and the italians that at the university studied something else, not jurisprudence.
    I’ll try to make things simple, because is complex both to explain and understand.
    First of all the italian juridic system, like many other european countries, isn’t like the US system (so called Common Law), we don’t have court decisions that make a precedent. Every decision taken by a court is valid only for the single case discussed in that court. The decisions of our most important courts work as an orientation only. And the one mentioned (Turin) is not one of the major courts.
    So every court decision can be reversed by a different court, even if the cases discussed are very similar or look identical.
    Read again the article and the YT thing and now this:
    in 2008 Mediaset (biggest multimedia and tv private platform in Italy) started a legal action against google because YT was hosting videos of a popular Mediaset reality tv show. Mediaset asked the judge to order YT to remove everyting from the servers and to avoid this happening for the future, also asked to have from YT 10,000€ for each minute of video streaming of each content and 10,000€ for every day of delay in deleting this stuff from the servers. Google instead said it cannot be considered responsable because YT don’t have to control in advance the contents.
    in 2009 the civil court of Rome said Mediaset was right and Google responsable, because YT cannot be considered like an internet provider (like has been until then), but like a publisher, and as such responsable for all the contents hosted and from which it was making money.
    In 2015 Mediaset and Google made a deal.
    You see? Was the same case apparently, but a different decision. Why? Because in the meantime the italian and the european orientation on the matter changed. Google is making ton of money in Europe and paying few taxes compared to what it should do. Europe and the single countries are changing their laws and orientation in order to protect their markets.
    Aris is right, the italian laws are complex, for a guy like him is probably rocket science.
    But that’s why you consult a lawyer and an accountant when you start a company: to have someone explaining you in few simple words what you can and what you can’t do.

    Now, can Kunos be considered responsable for the possible illegal contents a user posts in their forum? They could be, if some circumstances occur.

    Why? In their case you can go there and post a comment without this being moderated in advance. Meaning your comments are published immidiately. When it’s like that and the admin that see/suspect/is told that there something that illegal in a comment don’t take action or delay this, he can be considered responsable. In particular if he suspect it’s illegal and don’t check the content or he delay this to another moment he’s responsable because of negligence (colpa). When instead he knows for sure that there is something illegal and he don’t take action he’s responsabile because of malice (dolo). Dolo and colpa are the two main forms of responsability for the italian law and they lead to different degrees of gravity in the punishment, where of course the malice is the worst one.

    Is this written clearly in a single law? Not in a single one. Let’s say what I described is a general orientation on this matter. When something illegal happens in the web and the matter isn’t disciplined by a single law in every possible aspect, the judge uses the general principles that rule our civil and penal system, combined with the specific principles stated by the laws that discipline the matter or a similar matter (copyright, defamation, privacy, etc.). It’s complex, the procedure is complex, the laws are complex and every single case is decided based on the circumstances that the judge notice in that single case. The fact is, it can’t be simple, because the web isn’t simple.

    So they risk? Yes, if someone that claims a copyright infringement goes straight to the police or a court instead of contacting them and they deleted that content asap. But the fact is, considering the forum section was about modding and is well known that a similar space could have been used by some users to post copyrighted material, they would have hard time explaining the judge that they never thinked about this possibility. Especially if the company complaining claims that happened also other times in the past. Ok? So, to be safe they would need need to change the posting rules and put all the comments in a moderation queue. Don’t think at a court like a place with old people who don’t know shit about web, because you are wrong.

    Is their decision caused by the law? I don’t know, but doesn’t matter. It’s their forum, their game, so they decide. All the rest is speculation. Move on.

    To give an idea, if I’d make a blog like yours in Italy and I’d start offending/defaming other people, the blog would closed in short time, a court would kick my ass and order me to pay thousand euros to the person defamed.

    Like

    1. A poor question, but shouldn’t they close the entire forums if they are liable to basically any legal action over anything someone posts? Libel, pirated TV shows… you could really go to town on the AC forums thanks to these zany Italian laws if four or five people were acting in unison just to prove a point. Guys attaching links to pirated TV shows in low-activity threads, disguising the hyperlink in the body of paragraphs people skim over… Again, would take some coordination, but from what I understand, that door is wide open to exploit if this is how things supposedly work.

      Like

  23. Would work in your fantasy world.
    For the police to step in you need someone to go to them and ask their action. In this case the owners of the tv shows you said. Then there is the investigation, finding the identity and the locations of the users involved. Then the police under the coordination of the judge will investigate to find the responsabilities. Then you’ll have your home police knocking on your door. And finally you will face a court. You, not the forum you spammed. Nowadays you can’t hide behind a proxy.
    The defamation example I made is different, because I’m speaking of an italian blog and a crime committed in my country, so the police procedure would be faster and a bit different. Was just to give the idea of how serious things can become eventually.

    The only hassle you can create to them in that way is the time wasted cleaning the forum.
    Again, a forum where you can post your comment immidiately need active moderators to control the forum possibly full time, and in this case they won’t be considered responsable because they are deleting or censoring the comments asap (no negligence and no malice), or in alternative all the comments put in a moderation queue (clean posts from the go). If you can’t afford to have many admins controlling everything when you know that in the forum some users can do something that can create you legal troubles, then is better to use the moderation queue or close some parts of the forum for a while, or forever.
    If you open a forum like that you also count on the intelligence of the users. If they give you rules, than respect them or go and do your stuff somewhere else. It’s like that in every forum, all over the world, included Italy.

    Legal troubles don’t mean necessarily that you will be considered responsable at the end, but the only fact that you have to go in a court to explain your reasons means that you have to pay a lawyer and spend some mornings in a court. It’s a big waste of time (and of money, if your time is money).
    I can understand their decision, I would have done the same just to avoid the possibility to have to spend a couple of mornings inside a court.

    Like

  24. Glad, they killed off the mod section.

    99% of all mods are rip offs of at best mediocre quality. Its 2016 and Game developers have stepped up their game considerable to max out current hardware. What was decent in RF1 or just about matched the official content back in 2008 looks dull and boring today. Then these modders go into wars with each other over who stole stolen stuff from whom, and who forgot to give proper credit to the one who stole it first or before him. It is ridiculous. Only was a good thing to stop this.

    Going through all the 3rd party stuff available on RD, there are maybe 5-10 cars and tracks and apps who have good quality, and are a worthy addition to AC. However these have not been modded, but designed or crafted rather, and if I’m not mistaken, some of these already few guys have been contacted by Kunos to work for them, or their creations have been bought and made official content.

    So really, what we see here is the outrage of few dozens of pupils, who waste their free time to modify other peoples work without permission (the permission of the original creator or the license holder, not the permission of the one who stole it at first), and without much talent. What they miss in talent, they make up in drama though. With the success and public recognition ever growing, Kunos may not want to be connected to any of this, I suppose.

    And what seems to be not quite understood is the fact, that even if there are no direct legitimate consequences for Kunos to expect from having this stuff on their forums, it is enough, if they suspect, that their fellow rival game developers do not approve of it.

    Befitting that these modders are fully unaware of their low standing, they now react like this is a big deal, which it is not, they have just been forced to go enjoy themselfs on a different playground

    Like

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