Deflate to 13 PSI

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The ninth episode of The Simpsons’ twelfth season sees our bumbling middle-aged protagonist discover a crayon has taken a permanent residence inside the frontal lobe of his brain for almost four decades, and after a brief stop at the Springfield hospital to rectify the obvious problem, Homer morphs into a phenomenally competent cartoon father almost overnight – though he soon discovers he misses his classic personality thanks to the burden intelligence eventually brings him. However, during his everyday adventures without the obvious mental handicap of a Crayola missile lodged up his nose, one pivotal scene sees Homer “accidentally” prove the non-existence of our Lord and Savior to his devout Christian neighbor Ned Flanders, a conclusion he claims was the result of merely trying to do his taxes. And in writing this article, I feel as if I identify with this alternative version of Homer. I merely set out to win a hot-lapping competition in our comments section, and accidentally found major flaws in Assetto Corsa’s tire model.

I’m sure you can tell by the title where this is going, but part of the fun in these articles is discovering how we got there.

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It’s a pretty easy story to follow, so let’s bring everybody up to speed. Last week, I penned a quick article detailing the adventures of an anonymous iRacing member who had configured his Direct Drive wheel in such a poor manner, the expensive toy steering wheel literally snapped around during a wreck and fucked his arm up pretty badly. I mean, the guy admitted to bragging to his co-workers about his injury, and using it to show off how hardcore the racing simulators he plays are, rather than use it as a wake-up call that fucking up your arm in the pursuit of immersion is beyond ridiculous. So I did my thing where I basically called everyone to point and laugh at the guy, because legitimately driving your ass to the doctor after an iRacing wreck of all things makes us all look like pathetic nerds who are unable to give up on their dream of driving a real race car. I thought we were going to stop at the whole Hero Card thing, but I guess not.

Anyways, activity in the comments section exploded as predicted. Some people sided with me and joined in on ridiculing those who invest thousands into a toy steering wheel to play games whose technology can’t make use of these products to their full potential, others implied I was just jealous that I couldn’t afford this expensive piece of hardware, and a handful of sim racers indifferent to the topic at hand simply pulled up with a big bag of popcorn to watch the show.

But there was this one guy by the name of Anindobaj who, to his credit, actually bothered to step up to the plate and challenge how I felt about Direct Drive wheels. He claimed they really were worth the money, and his lap times supposedly were proof that the pricey equipment upgrade paid off with on-track results – something I’ve long contested here at PRC.net. I always make Direct Drive wheel owners out to be the Gear Snobs of the sim racing world, but here was a guy who put his reputation on the line and wanted to settle things on the track – away from the trolls labeling me insane, psychotic, or holding an irrational vendetta. The guy gave me a list of times to knock off, and more or less took the stance of “my Direct Drive wheel is responsible for these lightning quick times, and your plastic wheel will never give you the level of control that I have.”

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There are a lot of combinations he suggested in the above quotes, so I took aim at the car I knew I’d feel the most comfortable with, and therefore waste the least amount of time with considering it was the Friday before a race weekend, and I would need to leave for my bro’s house in a few hours. Until that day, I’d never driven the Ferrari 488 GT3. Hell, I hadn’t even bought the Red Pack yet; it’s no secret that I don’t give Assetto Corsa a lot of playtime when I’m not shitting up the world with PRC.net entries. But I love my bland and soulless GT3 stuff because they’re fun as hell at the limit in RaceRoom, so that was first on the list.

Anindobaj set the bar quite high with a 6:43.8xx using the default setup with only minor tweaks, but to my surprise, my first lap on the board blew him out with a 6:40.xxx. I was  extremely disappointed. Here was this guy promising he could put up a fight against me, carrying the flag for the army of Direct Drive wheel users against the evil PRC.net, and it was over in six minutes. I went and bought the Red Pack just for this little shit-flinging session in the comments of one of my articles, I installed the newest version of the RSR Live Timing application, got all my graphics configured properly, fought with my piece of shit plastic wheel for an hour because the degrees of rotation wouldn’t change to 900 for Assetto Corsa, and in the first fucking lap, put his ass on the trailer by three seconds. That whole thing was just too anti-climactic for me.

So I got a text from my bro, and he told me to come by his house a little later than usual that night so we could crash at his place and cut the length of the drive in half on Saturday, and I then realized I had about four hours to myself – four hours I didn’t exactly expect to have when I got off work. I glanced at the RSR Leaderboard box sitting at the top of the screen, and noticed the world record was only five seconds ahead of the 6:40 I laid down with the default setup.

Eh, it’s practice for the race tomorrow. Why not give it a shot?

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If there’s one car to convince me that GT3 entries are boring as hell to drive, it’s the Ferrari 488 GT3 in Assetto Corsa. Maybe it’s the way the simulator handles tire temperatures in relation to grip, or maybe these cars truly are just point and shoot automobiles – a vessel for the rich and naive to try there hand at major league auto racing – but this isn’t a fun car to drive by any means. It gets light over crests and plows through the center of the corner when you’re lazy with the throttle, but this thing is incredibly tame for a vehicle with roughly the same power to weight ratio of a Late Model Stock Car. Call me a fanboy (and it’s definitely justified here), but the same class of cars in RaceRoom are infinitely more fun to drive. You can actually get on the edge of the tire – and hold it there – in Sector 3’s product compared to what Kunos has created, which doesn’t exhibit any noticeable wiggle through the center or on exit as it should. This isn’t saying that Assetto Corsa in this situation is a kid’s game, you just can’t dance a bit with the car like you can in R3E.

I threw some setup tricks at it. I threw more setup tricks at it. I wasn’t sure how to enable tire blankets and didn’t bother asking anyone, so I frequently threw away minutes of my life on a useless warmup lap, but as the evening drew to a close and it was time for me to start packing my shit for the weekend, I managed to snatch the top spot on the RSR scoreboard by a tenth of a second. The final setup adjustment that did the job was dropping the tire pressures to a value that seemed a bit interesting in any other racing simulator, but according to the tire behavior box, it was the right call. I ended up not only grabbing the world record, but also beat the time Anindobaj had set in the La Ferrari hypercar by an entire second, a time that he claims had been set on a previous tire model.

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But as PRC comments were beamed to my phone throughout the weekend, some of which discussed the results of this impromptu hot lap competition, I began thinking about certain setup techniques I used to secure the top spot, and more specifically, the tire pressures I had been using.

You see, back when I was really fucking active on the RSR Leaderboards – so the summer of 2014, when this was all there was to do in Assetto Corsa – our old pal Chris had actually done some research on the Michelin tires used in International GT3 championships, and found that the absolute minimum pressure you should be running in your slicks to ensure your own personal safety was 24 PSI. This is actually backed up on Pirelli’s website as well – there are explicit instructions on the page dedicated for racing slicks begging you to never hit the track with anything less than 1.6 bar (23 PSI) of air in your tires, and they go into pretty vivid details as to what happens if you plan on ignoring them.

Pirelli.jpgI had a feeling that something was amiss – I was one or two PSI into the borderline-dangerous territory. I personally didn’t feel I should have gotten away with a World Record run when tire manufacturers were cautioning me about the exact values I was using.

And if you’re curious about what Michelin has to say about their recommended pressures as of 2016, they advise customers to start with a cold reading of 22 PSI (so their tires appear to have improved), though their descriptions of what happens when you intentionally set things below 19 PSI aren’t as vivid or hilarious. In either case, both companies more than hint at widespread destruction and carnage rather than a world record lap for the setup I put in my virtual car.

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So on the outset, setup values that appeared to be experimental actually ended up being right in line with adjustments real-world teams were advised to make, meaning Assetto Corsa performs quite well in the process of transferring real setups to the computer screen – even if the values I personally used were more within the dangerous category rather than the safe zone. In this instance, I can forgive Kunos for being ever so slightly off – it’s damn close enough to satisfy my own needs.

However, this is PRC.net, and I wasn’t exactly done yet. I began to wonder what would happen if you just sort of kept dropping things, hoping I could recreate the carnage both Michelin and Pirelli had described.

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Sev, Dustin, and I talked about this shit-flinging competition over Facebook for a bit, and Sev brought up something interesting from his time spent in last years RaceDepartment series for the BMW M235i. At one point in Assetto Corsa’s lifespan, like the camber glitch in Project CARS, dropping the tire pressures to the absolute minimum value allowed in the garage menu would grant sim racers with so much grip in the corners, it would negate the effects of reduced straight line speed almost entirely. Sev basically wondered if this still existed in some form, and suggested for me to try it out.

So I took things to the extreme, because you never know what results would possibly present themselves if I pushed the physics engine to the absolute limit. A quick google search found me a program to decrypt the data.acd file found in all official Kunos Simulazioni vehicles released for Assetto Corsa – including the recently released DLC cars – and I would use this as a way to deflate my tires beyond the minimum value allowed by the game, hitting the Nurburgring Nordschleife at maximum attack with four flat tires.

As you can see above, the World Record lap had been set with pressure values that were listed as extremely dangerous by the tire manufacturer themselves, but an intelligent reader on here could make the argument that I moved well away from the listed danger zone once I was able to generate a bit of heat in the tires. However, showing up to the Ring with, oh, I don’t know, 8 PSI in all four corners of the car should have caused major problems.

And it didn’t.

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Still struggling to find the tire blanket option on my own, I began the daredevil test session by deflating the tires in my Ferrari like Jodi Arias, and hitting the cold & cloudy German mountain range with the pathetic value of 13 PSI on all four corners of the car. It was a bit of a balancing act; the reduced air pressure made the car sit much too low to the ground, and I needed a safe combination of suspension stiffness and ride height adjustments to make it through tech inspection. Once I found something that both passed tech and felt comfortable during the first sector of the circuit, driving this thing was fucking fun. The ultra-low PSI made the rear tires rapidly heat up during quick successions of corners, and as a driver, monitoring the tire performance application every 30 seconds or so was an enjoyable challenge that brought a new level of difficulty to a track I’d already memorized.

I would use the first lap to bring the tires to life and maintain a constant operating pressure, while lap two would be driven at maximum attack – carefully managing the life of the rear slicks. I want to go on record and say that this is the most fun I’ve ever had playing Assetto Corsa. It was like piloting a massive Go-Kart; the tires evolved in such a rapid state, there was finally a stategy to driving the world’s most difficult race track, rather sheer memorization of the line as if you’re playing the longest song in Guitar Hero.

I worked my way down to 10 PSI, and eventually 8 PSI, before the car finally had enough. At no point did the car violently spin out in the way you’d expect it to, nor did all four tires spontaneously blow apart in the way Pirelli described. If the car had a massive skid and bled off too much speed, I’d abandon the lap. Because I wasn’t just crawling around the track here; I was actively chasing the ghost of my World Record lap. Yes, on literal flat tires – so flat that I had to manually edit the Setup file to achieve such low PSI values in the first place – my ghost was always just a few car lengths in front of me on the fucking Nordschleife. Sure, the tire app turned into a neon dance party; switching from blue to green to orange to red in rapid succession, and back again, but I was still fucking flying.

On flat tires.

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The final retard-tier setup I settled on had me using 13 PSI up front, and 15 PSI in the rear, with the suspension and ride height values sitting somewhere in the middle of the slider (not unrealistic by any means) so I could pass tech inspection and get out on the track in the first place. Believe it or not, I managed to stay directly on pace with my Ghost Car throughout the first minute of the lap; a tangible gap only manifesting itself after Flugplatz and beyond. No, I definitely wasn’t going to set a new World Record and ignite a week-long fanboy war with these bullshit tire pressure adjustments – the opposite of what happened with the camber exploit in Project CARS – but I definitely wasn’t slow, either.

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Flat tires and a slight increase in suspension stiffness netted me fifth on the RSR charts, and to put the icing on the proverbial cake, I knocked off Anindobaj and his Direct Drive wheel by two seconds. Pirelli told me the tires would all simultaneously rip off the rims. A 6:41 at the Nurburgring Nordschleife begs to differ. Most sim racers can’t achieve this lap time with a proper setup.

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So we get to that point of the article where it’s time to summarize my findings, and it’s extremely hard to do so in this instance without ripping into Kunos Simulazioni, because to be quite honest, this is truly embarrassing. In the three years sim racers have been purchasing and playing this game, Assetto Corsa has amassed a collection of eight different tire models, to the point where Kunos crew have neglected other aspects of the game in favor of perfecting what happens when virtual rubber meets the virtual road. Fans threw both figurative and literal tantrums on message boards far and wide, begging Kunos to finish the game and implement features that would turn the simulator into more than just a virtual Chris Harris experience, but time and time again patch notes would be full of technobabble discussing refinements to the tire behavior of cars people weren’t even interested in driving to begin with.

And this is the result. You can show up to the Nordschleife in a car capable of speeds over 270 km/h, deflate your tires far below pressures listed by the manufacturer as dangerous to your personal safety, and land fifth on the worldwide leaderboard with a car that’s actually quite enjoyable to drive and most certainly isn’t trying to kill you. For all the time they’ve spent boasting about having access to an abundance of real world data, and for all the tire model variations pushed on the users – each one supposedly more advanced than the one before it – this is just amateurish. As much as we joke about Simulation Value here, this is one of those moments where we have to stop giggling at the psychotic comments left by trolls, and say with a straight face that the simulation value is actually lacking in this aspect of the simulator.

 

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125 thoughts on “Deflate to 13 PSI

  1. lol!

    First.

    I think it’s interesting that the tyre pressures kinda make sense until you explore very low pressure and the lack of true deformation shows iteslf.

    Would wager many empirical model sims have this problem but idk.

    Fun read anyways.

    Like

    1. GG Allin = Austin
      Floor = Sim Racing Community
      Shit being Taken = pretendracecars.net
      Smearing of shit all over = each article
      Small cock = proof of how insecure James is
      Eating Shit = what you should do
      .

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  2. So you make about 3 points in the article:

    1. You’re an alien.
    2. You don’t really get and advantage from dropping the tyre pressures.
    3. Assetto Corsa’s tyres dont blow up in extremely low pressures that require .ini editing, an significant flaw in the driving physics that three people in the entire world will notice.

    I agree with all three points. 😀

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    1. Ah, I see you have fallen into my trap. 15 PSI doesn’t require an INI edit 🙂

      The face that lower values like 8 and 10 are still drivable, even moderately quick, is definitely an issue.

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        1. “Can you try the same in Automobilista and Rfactor 2?”

          My bet is you’ll overheat immediately,with RF2 taking it a step further with being able to feel the actual tyre deform immensely through FFB,but on lunch break, so will have to try later.

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          1. Under-inflated tyres in rf2 do feel soft and overheat quickly.

            Iirc ams mostly overheats quickly and feels too planted.

            Mind you I never took things as far as James did in ac due to the quick falloff in performance, was only the difference of a few psi to start causing severe problems with heat/grip.

            I’ll admit, I have been reducing psi in ac for pretty much every car since I started running the game.

            For example, the range of ~super gt cars seems to be clearly over-inflated all the time. The temps also say something isn’t right.

            Once you get closer to realistic competition pressures for these combinations, the temps start behaving more reasonably.

            Idk why the pressures are so high by default.

            I don’t care much about outlier behavior, but as it is now the effect of pressures is too understated within the reasonable ranges.

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      1. Makes you wonder why they even have pressure that low if the sim cant handle the consequences, they didnt even have to model a tyre explosion, a simple realistic temp should do it, with pressure that low the temps would be so intense you’d have zero grip I.E “destroyed” tyres.

        Also watch out for Anindobaj,he may be slow as fuck, but hes a known gangster and will knock on your door if you piss him off enough.

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        1. rF1 simulates tires exploding and getting punctures. Never tested them properly myself, but crashes and extreme tire wear can make a tire sort of “explode” with the car becoming undriveable.

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        2. “why they even have pressure that low” they don’t tho, James had to edit the data files to run it that low.

          I don’t know how long you can run a stint at 100% pace on super underinflated tires; James was saying in the article that he had to manage the temps by holding back in certain areas of the track (thus being like 4 seconds slower than optimal pressures) so they’re definitely heating up more than ideal at low pressure.

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          1. Lowest default value is 15 PSI, which is what I had the rear tires at. I could have had the fronts at 15 as well, but I wanted them to heat up a bit quicker since they would lose heat like crazy during speed sections – hence the decision to go to 13.

            10 PSI was pushing it, and 8 PSI was the absolute limit before it was like “nah, I’m losing too much speed having to fight the car.”

            HOWEVER, I was running on kill with a hotlap setup, and I’m in the top 1% of sim racers to begin with. Your average Assetto Corsa owner won’t be able to push the car as hard as I can, and that’s obviously down to skill/experience. Based on my own estimations, you could hand a mid-pack Jack the same Ferrari 488 GT3 with 6 PSI in the tires, maybe even 5 PSI provided the car doesn’t glitch and sink into the ground, and he would actually complement you on how easy the setup was to drive, because he doesn’t have enough talent to make the tires cry.

            And that’s where there’s a problem. You shouldn’t be able to get away with flat tires under *any* circumstances. In Assetto Corsa, you honestly can’t tell you’ve hit the track with an LSD-inspired acid trip setup.

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    1. This is not like that pcars chamber bug. James 2psi doesnt make him break his alien 22psi record.Kunos will fix this on the next patch.

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  3. GG Allin = Austin
    Floor = Sim Racing Community
    Shit being Taken = pretendracecars.net
    Smearing of shit all over = each article
    Small cock = proof of how insecure james is
    Eating Shit = what you should do

    Like

    1. Please find me more obscure things like GG Allin to research. I already spent three hours watching Hollywood Occult shit and stuff on the $20M club, I need more.

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      1. James check out sites kaotic.com, go to latest user uploads, and check out best gore.com, its owner Mark is still under house arrest in your country, both very interesting sites.

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      2. Coming from the guy that says… need more features, complains that something doesn’t work outside the parameters anyone would try unless they were just trolling Kunos…. but that couldn’t be whats happening, surely.

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  4. In very slight defense of the game, they obviously don’t model tire blowouts… and as far as I know GTA IV was the only car game in recent recollection where you could pop tires from burnouts. Pretty disappointing actually, you’d think someone would figure out how to implement that.
    As far as lap times, I’m no tire expert, but it seems reasonable ish if you had indestructible tires to still lay down a decent lap time, provided they aren’t rolling and sliding off the rims, which again, AC doesn’t do. It gets theoretical from there.

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    1. simple solution, the Tyres should overheat beyond any kind of usefulness,no blowouts necessary (although would be very nice feature) very easy Id say to implement, thats if you have a decent working heat model.

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        1. You can:

          It needs to be implemented a fuckton better though, this is the only way I can do it. Ideally each tire profile would have its own tolerances for breakage through irresponsible use (under-inflation, excessive camber etc) to where blowouts like this would occur; it’d be pretty fucking sick to take a gamble with risky settings in qualifying or whatever

          Tire blankets are under “Realism” by the way, it’s far more fun with them off

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        2. “you should be able to blow tires in a 2016 racing simulator.”

          Totally agree, just saying though AC could do a lot lot better even without modeling blowouts, but if rf1 can do it not sure why no one else implemented blow outs, as far as I know even rf2 dont do it.

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      1. “AC’s been able to pop tires by overheating them for literally years.”

        Yet you cant overheat the tyres flying at world record speeds on flat tyres?

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  5. only a 6:41 Man that’s kinda dissapointing, I’m here with my keyboard and mouse, did my 2nd lap a 6:32 withouth hitting any walls or going off..

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  6. yeah well world records assuming everyone is on rsr…valid point in the article by the way, only overshadowed by all your self-praise babble, you are soo good by the way you need to stop playing sims immediately and search for a hobby which matches your unprecedented skills

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  7. This is an impressive amount of writing for the sole purpose of run of the mill narcissism not seen since the heyday of Livejournal. A triumph of the human will.

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  8. Running pressures as low as one dares is very common with these cars also IRL. Those record 22 colds are not out if the ordinary, so nothing to see here. Lowering the pressures further slowed you down, as they should have.

    Also 6:35 is an OK lap, nothing more. These things can go ten seconds faster.

    Points for OK writing, minus for too long and pointless intro. But I can’t see how the game is broken. You said yourself you struggled at under 15 pressures, like you should have..? I don’t get it, since blowouts are nit a part of the game.

    I’d love to see how AMS or rF2 handle this though!

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    1. >Also 6:35 is an OK lap, nothing more. These things can go ten seconds faster.

      Yeah man, holy shit all those 6:25 laps I see posted everywhere. James is a fucking pleb jesus christ.

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    2. I struggled under 13 PSI because I was driving on kill trying to run a hotlap. Your average sim racer could get away with anywhere from 6 to 8 PSI, potentially never running into overheating problems whatsoever.

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    1. It was just because the SC was on track you dummy. The pressures FELL from optimum. No wonder he was a sitting duck to Montoya on the restart.

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    1. This gets better. Inside the tire file there’s literally an Optimal PSI line, meaning AC isn’t simulating much of anything when it comes to tires, and in theory I could set this at like 12 PSI for uber grip when hitting the track at 2 PSI – essentially driving on the rims.

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      1. Sorry, but that isn’t how it works you need to calculate it this way

        coefficient equation:
        0.001 * (ROLLING_RESISTANCE_0 + ROLLING_RESISTANCE_1*V^2) * PRESSURE_RR_GAIN * PRESSURE_IDEAL / PRESSURE_ACTUAL
        V^2 = m/s speed
        PRESSURE_ACTUAL = optimal tire pressure psi

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      2. It’s even worse then I thought… But the problem is, when you do make a highly sophisticated tyre model, no one will make mods for it because you need a degree in rubber physics to make an accurate car. *cough rF2 cough*. ISI has to ditch the idea that modders have the necessary skills and just charge for high quality DLC’s.

        Damn, I never thought I would ask for DLC’s in my life.

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  9. This article will be outdated pretty soon since the GT3 cars will be updated to the next tire model in the next update later this month lmao

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      1. So should we please to 3 people in the world or not? One time devs shouldn’t spend time improving the simulation because it only affects 3 people in the world, on the other hand James gets to decide whether simulation work is relevant or not.

        Are false starts relevant to more or just 3 people in the world? James decides.

        Liked by 1 person

  10. Shit like this makes online pretty frustrating; are the guys ahead of me on pace there on skill, or have they found a janky set-up?

    This doesn’t just apply to AC of course, but after a million tyre models in favour of features that should come as standard it’s fucking bullshit.

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    1. Is pretty easy to now say what should have come as standard. Maybe you don’t really understand evolution in science and simulation.

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  11. Been said many times before, but to put everything in contrast, things like this should be compared with how other favorite sims handle those situations.

    It’d be fun to see how GTR2 or R3E handles it.

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          1. Not really, GT3 tire suppliers have to provide tires that can be used by at least half a dozen different cars, from the 488 to the Continental/M6 and anything and everything in between. So they have to be pretty “standardized” by default in order to not give a certain car any advantage over the others. The only series that allows specific tires for each car that I’m aware of is the WEC, because there each team can choose their own manufacturer (Even though most use Michelin, only a couple of them use Dunlop) so the tire supplier makes tires unique and specific for each car.

            The R3E decision to not allow any changes to the tires might be questionable, but the GT3 rules are pretty strict anyway, so if the real teams are not allowed to play around with tire pressure on their real cars anyway, what’s the point in allowing that in a simulation that aims at recreating with as much fidelity as possible the real world?

            This is also where rF1 master race comes into play once again. In there we can pre-decide what we can and can’t allow people to edit in the garage menus of our mods so that we can recreate a sort of rulebook specific to each car/series directly from inside the game.

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            1. R3E doesn’t have any tire pressure, camber etc. tire adjustments in old Group 5 cars either, did old Group 5 cars have strict tire rules also?

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              1. Just think about if AC didn’t have tire pressure and camber adjustments, every simulation value expert would bring that up and call AC a simcade because of that, but with R3E no one seem give a fuck, probably because it’s so unpopular compared to AC.

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              2. Well, Group 5 was an entirely different story in the real world, because it was similar to how WEC rulebook works today. Each car built under Group 5 regulations had to meet certain requirements for the homologation, but otherwise they were free to do whatever the fuck they wanted because, unlike today, the ultimate goal was to win without compromises. At the time, Firestone, Goodyear, Michelin and Dunlop were commissioned to build specific and different tires for each car and that resulted in some being glued to the ground, some being more tail happy than a puppy with autism and so on.

                Yes, that meant that each car had different performances, but the aero and all that stuff weren’t as advanced as today ones, so you couldn’t do much other than having different wings to be used at different tracks, different engine maps to be used between qualifying and race, and little else anyway.

                I believe they could play around with tire pressure, but when you have a Porsche 935 with 750bhp that on a straight line is faster than a Porsche 956, you don’t really want to do that. It’s too dangerous because those cars were much more powerful than a modern GT3 car, but were also less technologically advanced than a modern GT3 car. They didn’t have traction control, abs and carbon fiber brakes to name a few, and if a tire blew up in the middle of the straight while going at 340km/h down the Mulsanne straight, that wouldn’t have been pretty.

                I believe in R3E, the Group 5 cars are a compromise of how the game is coded to begin with (So little chance to modify stuff in the setup anyway) and common sense. When pushed to their limits, those cars were not that easy to drive in the real world, so they probably had to make sure people in the virtual enviroment would be able to complete more than a lap without crashing into a wall.

                I still find the Group 5 cars in R3E better to drive and more realistic than that joke of a rendition of the Zakspeed Capri in pCARS for example. Or that other joke of a rendition in FM6.

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        1. For all we know cars might be running 10 psi in R3E then if they don’t even show basic things like tire pressures in the fucking garage menu.

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  12. Funny on rf2 fb they post some shit about tires too. http://isiforums.net/f/entry.php/18-Tyres-The-Big-One-%28Part-I%29 .here ISI say their tire data come from reliable info from the INTERNET not fukin genuine data from either Pirelli,Michelin or even Goodyear.In other words all GUESSWORK.Later this ISI dude talk shit that rf2 guesswork tires are better then those manufacturer who are blessed with real data, wtf? John Nelson Having driven real race cars, I still find the mechanical GRIP levels low. While great improvements have been made, a small slide overheats the tires to a point where you loose all grip. I could slide my Formula Atlantic all season long on the same set of Good Years and never loose grip like in Rf2. I can only hope the improvements keep coming. This by far is the BEST GUESSWORK sim on the market.

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    1. What would you expect, rf2’s molecular tyre model is temperature sensitive to a butterfly’s wing movement from across the Atlantic. I’m pretty sure rf2’s tyre model is more complex than CERN. rf2’s tyre model is made of tens of billions of god particles all pressure sensitive to the supermassive black hole found in the centre of our Milky Way galaxy.

      Liked by 1 person

  13. Thing about beating the 6:43.8xx easily is just so funny. I mean the guy didn’t say “bought Direct-Drive solely for immersion and fun”. He really believed that the wheel makes him faster.

    What this proves is talent >>>> equipment.

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      1. Oh yeah, especially with the brake pedal. It’s amazing how a simple rubber ball or elastic strap mod easily nets you a few seconds.

        I had a G25 before and I now have a T300RS. TBH, aside from the smoother feel on the T300 I don’t really notice the difference and I don’t think any of them makes me faster. Modding their brake pedals does though and it’s easily quantifiable.

        Oh, I would just like to mention that I find the included mod for the T3PA pedals really bad because it’s so stiff. I instead put a rubber grip exercise ball and it felt a lot better.

        Like

  14. I am starting to think PCARS and AC have more than it looks in common.

    Low pressures and no camber are exploits in BOTH of them… can´t be coincidence the same shit is broken!

    Like

      1. I don’t think he’s saying it’s an exploit. His point is if the real life tire manufacturer states you should never go below a certain pressure a sim should “simulate” that properly. In real life driving around with really under-inflated tires is dangerous yet in the sim he could still drive almost as quick as him having proper tire pressures.

        Liked by 1 person

  15. “Here was this guy promising he could put up a fight against me”

    Wrong. I challenged this Anonymous who wrote to me “Yet I’ll own you with your DD wheel in my T150 every time.” And i´m glad you only beat me by 3 seconds with that setup:) I´m 43 years old and started sim-racing with AC 1.0 last year. So you Super-Alien just could cut off three seconds of my time @Nordschleife and the AF is one reason why it´s close. I´m really not good in qualifying and in a competitive full grid i find myself rarely starting within the Top 5 and there are always guys seconds faster than me with probably more spare time to practice and more talent.

    And certainly DD-wheels are not made for GT3-cars with high power steering. Kelvin Van Der Linde put his FFB-strength so low in a Raceroom-dev-video, he could drive with two finger and said something like: DD-wheels are useless with GT3-cars. There are made for Formula and Historic cars which can generate in RL even more torque than the strongest servos available. A modern IndyCar produce about 12 Nm maximum, so if you want to simulate this cars, Thrustmaster and Logitech wheels are not the way to go. You have to drop the FFB-strength to a no-clipping level you don´t feel enough what´s going on.

    And full grip is a bit boring in AC. Better drive on green or at least fast. Raceroom i find to easy to drive with most cars and to much grip as well, but the modern DTM-cars are challenging. Some guy(s) got under 1:30 at Hockenheim in this Mercedes-challenge. Maybe you find out, how you get that fast with this car, because i´m at least 4 seconds away and there must be a setup-trick.

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    1. Just take your loss like a man instead of coming up with a thousand excuses. You got beat, and many other racers with consumer wheels will destroy the times you put up with your fancy DD wheel.

      Like

      1. I got beat by James, not a fucking asshole idiot like you. Try to break my time, moron. And i can go faster than 6:43. I was just comparing GT3-performance with that test and not intended to break lap times.

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        1. I randomly landed on this post. Don’t get caught up on it! There are many factors to driving, experience is a big one. You have a guy who loves driving GT cars and does so very frequently in his games. He’ll have an advantage over you, that’s fine. You lost by very little on a huge track.

          In SCE, Austin recorded the 2nd slowest time on the server (out of about 2.5 dozen people) in the CART 98 mod around Kyalami, 4.5s behind me and even 1.5s behind the league backmarker, who may have lucked into a 1:02.5 but still wouldn’t ever be able to sustain it in the race. On the same car, in the very first lap, I was 2.5s faster. Now, make it a Super v8 challenge and I’m sure I’d be trailing by 1-1.5s.

          It’s all relative.

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          1. I love how you’ve shown up here multiple times over the past few months to tell the story of how I ran all of two laps at Kyalami on your public server – no setup, no seat adjustments, hadn’t even tried the car before – and this is somehow irrefutable proof that I’m this talentless hack outside of GT3 cars.

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        2. I don’t have or play Assetto Corsa. Yet you are still bragging that you are some elite driver thanks to the SD wheel, when the pedals are a greater influence for how much faster you can go. You already shown how fucking retarded you are in your posts, when you claimed that there was no camber issue in PCars and that there wasn’t a camber setting to edit in Dirt Rally.

          Like

  16. PS: The new Ferrari 488 GT3 is using the older tire model for BOP-reasons and Kunos is upgrading all GT3-cars to the new tire model 10 soon according to Stefano. Make your home-work;-)

    Like

    1. PPS: The new Lambo is using the latest tire model and really nice car with proper camber-/toe-settings. James, better try to break this time:

      Like

  17. This isn’t the only game with tire pressure issue. In rf2 you’re supposed to drop all pressures to minimum possible, several PSI below what they should be.

    No point people killing themselves with supremely intricate tires if the system is not adequately balanced and the numbers fit. Creating setups in AC is a hassle. In rF2, properly knowledgeable people cite how rf1 tire model can be superior since rf2 has too much detail outside of modder control. And the thing about the pressure not being right.

    Back to basics before expanding forward with flaws.

    Like

    1. Huge major disinformation in this post. rF2 has a better tire model than AC, and tire situations such as running on low pressure tires are simulated more accurately than in AC. Please don’t talk on what you don’t know about.

      Like

      1. Rf2 is much more intricate but like a wind tunnel that isn’t properly calibrated, the outcome isn’t correct either. You should research instead of repost.

        Like

  18. Any testing on tyre model 10?

    And maybe a video or something instead of those small screenshots.

    Try it at a normal track like Silverstone with unsafe low pressure and realistic set.

    Like

    1. So a new piece of DLC comes out, its barely a week old, and AC fans are already screeching DONT USE THIS CAR AS AN EXAMPLE, ITS OUTDATED!

      Nice product you’ve got there.

      Like

      1. Kunos moved from tire model 7 to 10 because completely rewritten code, so if you want to throw shit on the this model, better take the newest one.

        Like

  19. You AC fanboys wanna still bash rF2 and claim that your sim is better? AC just got EXPOSED again for being a shitty simcade racer that has a horrendous tire model. In AC you can still run competitive laps with unrealisticly low tire pressures, which is a huge physics flaw and exploit. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN IN RFACTOR 2, which automatically confirms that rF2 is the better sim than AC. Physics are the most important part in a sim racing game, and rF2 completely obliterates AC’s physics. But you AC fanboys will still cry “muh graphics!!!!!!”. Fuck your graphics! Simulation value is always more important than graphics.

    Like

    1. Ofc we can. That’s why I was 3 freaking seconds slower in the Nismo around RBR when I tried the lowest pressures possible. Stop being such a freaking rf2 “fanboy”. rf2 simulates some stuff better than ac and ac has other stuff that will probably be better than rf2. Deal with it.

      Like

      1. And who tells you i dont

        Does it change anything ? Nope

        In the end we are all here playing video games

        Hard working people making that video game , trying to fulfill what people want

        No ac is not perfect

        Are the other perfect ? no

        You always try to get all the rotten parts of x and y game i understand you wan likes and all , but dont you think its enough ?

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        1. “You always try to get all the rotten parts of x and y game i understand you wan likes and all , but dont you think its enough ?”

          Deving games is a fucking privileged job, sick of seeing unemployed under worked snowflake millennials make out game deving is “hard work”, its work and Ill be damned to admit that sat at home on my PC is “hard work”.

          Why should ppl “stop” reporting issues like you say? some AC jack arse has already said this will be fixed in next patch, do you think that because nobody said anything about it ffs, stop painting devs as fucking “victims”, they’ve had our money, if they cant handle feedback thats gonna improve their game FOR FREE,that is their personal issue, not the customers, I dont give a shit if a snowflake dev cant handle someone reporting a bug the “wrong way”, have a fucking cup of concrete and harden the fuck up.

          And maybe get some decent fucking beta testers instead of the collection of insecure cunts that cant even drive half decently, spending more time on kunos forum harassing ANYBODY that dares post something they dont like or precive as a issue in AC, instead of actually you know testing the game.

          Why arent those useless fucking beta testing cunts picking these things up, this is what beta testing is for, fucking brown nose idiots, just had a look at kunos forum, its a fucking joke still, near Pcars level of bullshit, doesnt matter what you post youll be attacked by fucking spastic teens with anime pictures as profiles and a retarded texan cunt so far up kunos arse he should be embarrassed if they aint paying him.

          Maybe kunos should reach out to so called “haters”, and ask them to beta test for them, they might get decent feed back then, instead of virtual hand jobs and pats on the back for free DLC.

          Like

          1. Why would you need beta testers running cars with low pressure or even hacked low pressure? Devs already know how they designed the model, what’s its strengths and its limitations.

            This is one of those only 3 people in the world would mind problem, like James likes to point out.

            So you want to race with low pressure? Then just do it. Do you achieve something running the cars with absurd setup values? Oh no, they broke my illusion that in real life the car would fall to pieces.

            This is a racing simulator, no one cares much about values and experiments that go against racing these cars how they are intended to, as long as you can’t exploit the game and be good or better than others with unrealistic setups.

            Like

            1. Oh ok, so when ppl start saying kunos gonna fix it, they talking shit? also he used values that was obtainable without file editing too, 15 psi, is it “game breaking” no, but still worth reporting, and as far as I can see it should be fairly easily fixable, so what the hell is the problem?

              Like

              1. “Why would you need beta testers running cars with low pressure or even hacked low pressure?”

                Cause that is exactly what beta tester are supposed to do, break shit, find loop holes, they arent fucking reviewers, nobody gives a shit weather a beta tester has “enjoyed” the game, its about testing all possibility’s, that includes trying all available setup options, including all available tyre pressures.

                Like

              2. GT3 in AC has 15psi lowest cold pressure since the beginning from what I remember. Now seems a problem or suddenly everyone got their masters in mechanical engineering and computer science?

                What’s the lowest cold press in other sims?

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                1. About the same, the 2 cars I tried in RF2 had 18psi limit,Buuut you pay heavily for it, by 2nd lap on cold tyre they are fucked,the problem isnt how low you can set it, but the complete lack of reaction to such a silly move,your reply suggests you assuming the issue being pointed out is the fact you can set the pressure that low, its not, its lack of consequences.

                  I dont think AC has to limit it, just provide a decent consequence, this Ive found is AC biggest issue regarding setups in general, going from one extreme to the other provides very little difference, in ac for example both brake bias and camber at default values are ridiculous, a 70/30 brake bias is crazy, ten fold when you see it on historic cars that almost alwasy run as close to 50/50 as pos, and some camber values for giant fat gt3 wheels is set at same values as skinny touring cars tyres that traditionally run far more camber than a GT3, in fact GT3 camber in AC is even more then V8 supercars that are known to use some of the biggest cambers in Motorsport, yet the results you see back running such setups is underwhelming to say the least.

                  Like

                  1. If you want to say the way the default setups of certain cars are wrong, then come out with what’s the correct thing backed up by something substantial so that devs can trust the change. Is pointless to compare to what you think it should be and how other cars and other classes run.

                    And why should you keep the default setup values if you think they aren’t correct… most likely default aren’t the best for top competition anyway, so as you aren’t a newbie in sim racing, you should change things. Practicing and changing how cars behave is part of your sim racing experience.

                    Like

  20. ALL MUSLIMS SHOULD DIE AND EAT SHIT AND NEED TO BE EXTERMINATED IN SLAVE CAMPS WHILE PLEASING MAJOR TRUTHS TOP COCK!

    Like

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