Get That Arcade Shit Out of Here

screenshot_2017-01-12-08-29-45-1What you’re looking at above is the ultimate display in sim racing elitism. As of today, Facebook’s largest group for discussing our little hobby – over 7,500 users strong – have voted to ban all discussion of both the Forza Motorsport and Gran Turismo series, with users who create posts featuring either of the two titles in the future to have their submissions removed at once, and potentially banned from the group altogether after repeated infractions. The latest in a string of incidents which prominently showcase how toxic our community can be to those who refuse to blindly worship obscure PC simulators and broaden their horizons with software constructed for mass market appeal, a survey completed by just 1% of the Facebook group has effectively told a significant portion of our hobby that two perfectly competent simulators are taboo topics because they’re too successful.

Or something.

Earlier this week, I published an article stating I believed the downfall of sim racing was due to iRacing convincing the community that the hobby should be treated as an exclusive online country club rather than a $60 video game, and it appears some of my sentiments are being reflected in how these online groups are being moderated. I feel this is complete bullshit for the community to act in this manner. Both Forza Motorsport 6, as well as Gran Turismo 6, are virtually no more or less hardcore than titles such as Project CARS, Assetto Corsa, and iRacing; refusing to even acknowledge their existence or label them as “arcade games” is pretty hilarious when you actually pick apart the technical aspects of each console release.

Gran Turismo 6

Let’s start with Gran Turismo 6, because I really want to ruffle some feathers off the bat in this post. While many sim racers got their first real taste of the racing simulator genre with the third and fourth entries in the series on the PlayStation 2 before moving onto the Windows gaming platform, Gran Turismo 6 enters the ring as Polyphony’s flagship modern simulator.

The Gran Turismo series, dating all the way back to its inception on Sony’s original PlayStation, has been all about car collecting and JRPG-style grinding, with the core driving experience taking a back seat to garage management and progression elements. Aside from the endurance championships near the end of each game, most races are three lap sprints against an underwhelming artificial intelligence, which are placed well ahead of your starting position to generate a challenge that otherwise wouldn’t be there on a proper starting grid, so it’s certainly not an authentic Le Mans Prototype experience until the final portions of Career mode – and that’ll indeed make some believe it’s an arcade racer.

But there are ways to turn Gran Turismo 6 into something significantly more recognizable as a hardcore sim nerd. Each vehicle in the game comes with tires that are simply too sticky to be realistic, and Polyphony automatically enable most of the driving assists by default – meaning the Gran Turismo 6 most of you have played out of the box is vastly different than a hardcore sim racer’s custom GT6 profile. Taking thirty seconds out of your day to configure your steering wheel, turn off the numerous driving aids, and equip a harder tire compound than the car’s default, Gran Turismo 6 produces a driving experience on-par with most PC simulators. Lap times at Brands Hatch in the GT3 Spec BMW Z4 mirror what the rFactor 2 Endurance GT Payware mod cars are capable of, and the virtual recreations of locations such as Spa, the Nordschleife, and Laguna Seca are phenomenal.

gran-turismo-6-online-3-e1386199093439-638x360Yes, there is a problem with some of the car setup options in Gran Turismo 6 – running no camber at all generates an instant boost in speed when this would instead destroy your tires in real life. However, this exact same bug is present in Project CARS, a game which was financially aided by 35,000 hardcore sim racers. And though the single player events are designed to fuck with gamers via unfair AI head starts and bogus sprint races that almost never bring tire wear or fuel into account, the robust online functionality of the title offers hardcore sim racers the ability to conduct their own events, with proper practice & qualifying sessions, and a traditional rules package that can make use of standing or rolling starts upon the request of the user. Assetto Corsa, on the other hand, currently does not allow PS4 or Xbox One owners to host their own custom lobbies; they are at the mercy of whatever configurations Kunos Simulazioni have put into the dedicated server rotation.

Gran Turismo 6 has been deemed to be an arcade racer and not worthy of discussion by the same community who financially contributed to a different game exhibiting the exact same camber bug as Gran Turismo 6. This same group of people also neglect Gran Turismo 6 despite offering more functionality for hardcore sim racers than a game whose tagline is Your Racing Simulator.

v8supercarsford5falconfgwmforza6Moving on, let’s look at the other title wrongfully thrown under the bus, Forza Motorsport 6. The Forza Motorsport series originally launched in 2005 as Microsoft’s answer to Gran Turismo, but since it’s introduction to the scene a little over a decade ago, most people believe the Forza series has objectively become the better game. The car roster is a great deal more diverse than the fifty different Nissan Skylines and Mazda MX5’s taking up needless space in Gran Turismo, the livery customization elements, auction house, and setup building marketplace have added a virtual Barrett-Jackson element to complement the racing experience, and last but not least, there’s an enormous amount of shit to do in the game.

Like Gran Turismo, but directly addressing GT’s shortcomings, Forza Motorsport gives users several different ways to play through the game – though most of them are intended to appeal to a casual audience. Online races are short and sweet, perks or handicaps can be applied each race to exponentially increase your post race rewards, thus allowing you to accumulate a comprehensive collection of cars, and some of the engine swaps can get pretty absurd. It’s very easy for a hardcore sim racer to become turned off by the flashiness of Forza.

But it’s just as easy to ignore it all. Buried within the career mode are several Endurance racing events which can be entered with only light progression through the main experience – which most wise sim racers will partake in anyways to dial in their wheel settings and explore some of what Forza 6 has to offer. A pretty solid selection of multiple hour endurance races can be attempted using a vast array of modern racing machinery, with the game’s Free Race feature allowing you to configure your own races with virtually any piece of content in the game – which also pay out cash prizes and continue to your career progression. There is nothing stopping you from configuring a 14-lap race at the Nordschleife in any of the historic Formula One entries available in Forza Motorsport 6 to bring Grand Prix Legends into 2017, and if IndyCar is your thing, 50 laps at Long Beach may not be full race distance, but it’s more than enough.

forza-6-enduranceThe aforementioned perks and handicaps can be disabled entirely, and you can even select the number of mandatory pit stops for each race, generating a Forza Motorsport 6 experience decidedly different than the dudebro culture-infused mainstream gameplay you’ve probably seen demonstrated in various videos from annoying YouTube personalities.

Behind the wheel, it’s also not terrible to drive. A good friend of mine owns Forza 6, and I’ve logged many laps with his Logitech G920 exploring everything the game has to offer because that’s what you do on a Friday evening before raceday. Truthfully, it resembles how Assetto Corsa felt about a year ago. The cars are just a hair too planted in all situations, and though it’s something I can forgive considering the scope of Forza and how it’s intended primarily for mass-market appeal, I find it hilarious when Assetto Corsa owners knock Forza Motosrport 6 for somehow being “less serious” of a racing simulator – in this particular case, an arcade game. Forza, as it stands right this minute, drives how Assetto Corsa did on the PC in the spring of 2016. Unless you’re a phenomenally inexperienced driver who cannot possibly begin to diagnose car handling discrepancies, or just that ridiculously determined to become part of some exclusive PC sim racer club because you desperately need something to belong to, I’m a bit lost at how Forza Motorsport 6 is being labeled an arcade game when it feels roughly the same as Assetto Corsa once did.

Especially given some of the other bells and whistles found in Forza Motorsport 6. The Long Beach Street Circuit still hasn’t been completed for iRacing – instead being sold as an unfinished tech track with barely any scenery – and if you see it in YouTube videos by any chance, it’s a bit embarrassing. On the other hand, operating on inferior hardware compared to modern PC’s, the Xbox One version of Forza Motorsport 6 boasts a beautiful rendition of Long Beach, as well as the 2016 aero kits for the Dallara DW12, while iRacing still operates using an outdated 2012 model. Forza Motorsport 6 also includes in-game functionalities for livery and setup-sharing, whereas iRacing members are forced to download a third party program and manually browse the forums just for a whiff at custom content. And though the game does not ship with a safety car, caution flags which serve a purpose, or the ability to jump the start, the first two features are not functional in Assetto Corsa. Instead, owners of Forza Motorsport 6 get to play in the rain as compensation – a weather variant only found in rFactor 2 and Project CARS.

This somehow warrants Forza Motorsport 6 being labeled an “arcade game.”

maxresdefaultIn conclusion, it’s frustrating to see the elitists of the sim community deem perfectly decent alternatives to hardcore PC racing sims as arcade games that are against the rules to talk about in very large sim racing communities. Forza and Gran Turismo are solid titles, both of which I personally enjoy, and while I’ll obviously stick to my isiMotor stuff for competitive league racing, there’s nothing inherently wrong with what Forza or Gran Turismo bring to the genre. Both series make a genuine effort to accommodate the hardcore users alongside the casual audience, and it’s very bizarre to see sim racers outright ignore these elements.

Gran Turismo 6 has infinitely more online functionality than Assetto Corsa, generates the same lap times as rFactor 2, and exhibits the same bugs as Project CARS, yet Assetto Corsa is the game sim racers are masturbating over, Project CARS is the game they’re throwing money at to help develop, and rFactor 2 is what they’re shitposting about on every message board that hasn’t banned them for their viral marketing efforts, all while calling Gran Turismo an arcade game.

Forza Motorsport 6 admittedly does slightly more to cater to the casual players, but all of these little diversions to the core experience can be set to off, and you can still play Forza as a modern substitute for GTR 2 or Assetto Corsa – with plenty of hardcore endurance events to select from, as well as your own custom races even counting towards your profile’s overall progression. Yes, there are stupid perks, three lap sprints, prize wheels, and a whole bunch of assists enabled by default. You can scrap all of those and run three hundred laps at Homestead-Miami Speedway, or 50 laps at Road America if you’d like.

Yet nobody ever dares to mention any of this.

It’s as if I wasn’t kidding when I said sim racers want the genre to be an elite online club so they can finally feel like they belong to something, rather than a selection of driving games which require a slightly higher base level of skill to be successful at.

Gran Turismo 6


92 thoughts on “Get That Arcade Shit Out of Here

  1. Good Article I feel. I have fun with Forza and GT with the assists off and get to race some single player races at tracks that just aren’t present (short of mods) in the PC World (Road Atlanta, Long Beach, Sebring). Sure they’re not hardcore sims, but they are the best racing available IMO on the PS3 and XBOX One. Assetto Corsa may feel great, but the lack of tracks on the Console version versus GT and Forza makes a huge difference.

    Liked by 2 people

        1. But they’re all available for other titles. So, your argument is pointless, stupid and invalid. You get to race on Road America, Long Beach and Sebring, it doesn’t matter if they’re mods or not. That’s what modding is about.

          Actually, in this case it does matter, because all three tracks are scratch made and despite not being made by professionals, they shit on a lot of commercial projects.


    1. To be honest, coming from the GT side of things, I agree with the points. I don’t really care how realistic a game is. It can be the most realistic race but be a boring game and that’s what I want. Assetto Corsa isn’t an exciting game as much as I thought. I’d rather have Forza 6/GT5 because they are relatively fun games despite being less simulation.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. I cut my racing teeth in Forza for Xbox 360. With a Fanatec wheel and pedals and turning off those assists it was a pleasure. In fact I think it is still a more polished product then the “Sims.” I still struggle with setting up a race in Automobilista, and forget about a easy career progression. For someone wanting to get their feet wet with racing games, they are fantastic. Not to mention a fun place to race with friends when you get tired of getting wrecked out by someone in IRacing.


  3. I love forza MS. For me the amount of tracks and cars makes up for the lower sim value. If I feel like simming I play AC. By the way I’m a console only racer, so I guess my opinion is worth nothing and I should not even be posting anything, anywhere about sim racing.


  4. I loved FM4, FM5 was OK (better FFB, not as good a game), FM6 fucked up the FFB – but these are the games that reignited my interest in sim racing.

    It’s insane to exclude Forza from any discussion of sim racing. It’s amazingly fun and FH2 actually (imho) had some great FFB that closely resembled a real car. The off-road stuff was a blast. FH3 is a total disaster for wheel users, but hey.

    Liked by 1 person

      1. Ok cool, I will have to to go back and try FH3 again. I got the Ultimate $99 edition, found out the FFB was horrible and shelved it.

        Don’t you think the FFB in FH2 was pretty damn great? I’m also using a TX wheel (great value for what you get IMHO).


    1. Honestly FM4 was where I lost interest in the forza franchise. It seemed like a repackaged version of FM3 (which I loved) with two new tracks and a few new cars. It had no endurance races and no ability to make custom races offline.

      Glad to see it’s come a long way, but I won’t be purchasing another console ever


      1. It sucks you cant make custom races offline, but you can do a lot with a private lobby. You need xbox gold though. You can select ai opponents individualy, set up grid orders ect. Its what i play instead of forza 6


  5. I own FM6, AC and PCars on the XBox. If you take the same car on the same track, Forza often feels more challenging and realistic. Not to mention the graphics, which are better than anything in the market today, PC or not, and the fact that the game runs flawlessly with a full field of AI opponents, even at night or in the rain. The argument often used by PCars or AC shills that these titles cannot run as well in consoles because the hardware can’t handle it is just an excuse for lazy or incompetent programming.

    Liked by 1 person

      1. Yep. There’s some bullshit happening there. Hopefully they’ll fix Horizon 3 or Forza 7 will add more wheel support and won’t require a 1080 to run.


  6. James wants to turn sim racing into an arcade fest. You have been warned.

    This is not the first time he makes articles praising gran turismo 6, forza, f1 201x, dirt rally, over sim racing games. Wasn’t the article on brick rigs warning enough?


  7. I could yada yada yada for a while, but all this hate should stop, really… Racing is better when there’s more people, not less…

    Doesn’t get better with stuff like that.


  8. Good write up. While I started racing in NFS, my first taste of sim racing was LFS and rFactor when my cousin introduced me to them and later Race 07. I still however have enjoyed thousands of hours on GT 3, 4, 5 and Forza 2, 3 and 4. I built my first rig because I was spending quite a bit of time on Forza 2, despite the shitty Microsoft Xbox 360 wheel I had at the time, it was enjoyable. To this day, the most fun I’ve had racing on PC is with Project Cars despite the bugs because it’s the only title that resembles the race car driver feeling that GT and Forza have.

    Liked by 3 people

  9. Forza 2 has the best combination of arcade style career progression and simulation value. The core experience isn’t diluted with superfluous flashy garbage – everything is simple and serves a purpose.

    I belong to the PC master race these days and mostly play rF2 and AC, but if you ask me what the best all round racing game is, FM2 would have to take the win. No discussion of simulators would be complete without mentioning Forza, despite the unfortunate casual ‘dude bro’ direction the game has taken.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. I thought FM4 was the pinnacle for me, with my CSR Elite (great wheel for it’s time).

      Learning to drift the Yellowbird using Simulation Steering around the Nordschleife.

      Keeping the Peugeot 905 Evo 1 at Suzuka right on the knife edge in the S Curves, using mainly throttle to adjust my line.

      These were amazing moments that felt similar to a real track day in many ways and the FFB/physics seemed quite good.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I’ve probably spent the most time in FM3. It’s the first game where I felt I was able to push a car to it’s absolute limit, and feel a 1:1 connection with the car. Whether that is due to an easy driving model or intuitive ffb, I’m not sure.


      2. I still have my CSR Elite and the FFB on Forza 4 was rubbish! How can you praise a game that doesn’t even work 900 degrees properly? Fast forward to today Forza Apex on PC is still trash, the FFB and wheel feel atrocious in comparison to PC sims or GT6! FH3 actually has better (kinda playable with wheel) FFB and feel than Apex which is really weird..
        Fanatec CSR Elite here – everything else works fantastically!


  10. I have AC, AMS, pCARS, rF2, R3E, iRacing, and DiRT Rally for PC. This article makes me want to get a console and try the others. Be nice, be inclusive, have fun. Thanks for this article (and the other 6 I read today).

    Liked by 2 people

  11. Fuck all these gripfest turds off…keep em on console or piss em off totally.

    How stupid to have technology to produce simulation and an incredible range of hardware yet build dummy simcade turds.


            1. You do realise all console racers are potential PC “sim” racer don’t you?

              Also do you realise most PC racers started out on console?

              Nice way to alienate a total community that would grow and improve our community as whole

              Liked by 4 people

    1. Hi David, have you tried the latest version of Brick Rigs?

      We released a huge update to the physics engine last week and we’d love to hear feedback from hardcore experienced sim racing driers like yourself.


  12. Gran Turismo is my favourite gaming series anywhere ever, whilst Forza 6 is the best racing game we’ve seen. They’re better than anything else no matter what, really.


      1. Mario Kart has more variety in cars (or vehicles in general as they have bikes and other stuff), tracks, weather, features and all-but broken ai and multiplayer.

        Mario Kart is a better game than AC, and it’s cheaper.

        Liked by 1 person

  13. The physics of Assetto Corsa are not of simulation value, when you compare it to the way a racing driver and racing team and even vehicle manufacturers can use rFactor and rFactor 2’s physics to develop their cars and their drivers in a way that provides accurate data which they can rely on to use at races.
    To give you an example. All our race team clients and even our series clients, they don’t only use rFactor for track familiarization. They also use it to test setup data before they go to an event, they use it to test potential new part data, by developing new brakes or new engine performances and testing it in the game before they actually commit to building it in real life. rF1 and rF2 provide far higher accuracy for those things than any other simulation on the market. When it comes to Assetto Corsa, their game is marketed for a set audience which covers the Semi-Arcade side. When I drive rF1 or rF2, I’m always in a serious state of mind, I can’t just go out on the track and run a few laps. It is too simulation based and I treat it as such. I work on my setups, I push to find every tenth I can throughout a lap. I analyze too much. When I play Assetto Corsa, I can easily go in, pick a car and track, chill back and drive When using my Xbox360 controller and not give a care. The physics seem very much like Forza Motorsport 5, a console game physics HOWEVER, Kunos has done a great job for the simcade fans, but cut down to the wire, rFactor 2’s physics engine is by far the most simulation based physics engine using real life aero and physical data that no other title has come close to.


  14. Aw, come on! At least they should list both Forza and GT as a simcade. The assist maybe makes me feel like I’m playing Need for Speed, but that will help me or the other players who play the game for the first time. Honestly, listing both game as an arcade for just the assists is totally ridiculous.

    For [Censored] sake!


    1. His setups are amazing from what I’ve heard, not from a “I will go 5 seconds faster” perspective but rather “this feels more real than any car I’ve driven in a game”.


  15. Games like Forza are a great introduction to new players before they are able to play more hardcore simulations like rFactor or Brick Rigs


  16. Considering the sales numbers for the titles involved, it’s a decision that will negatively impact the pages popularity. It’s also kind of odd to make this move with such a minority vote, makes the outcome seem pre-determined. Aside from that, sure these days there are umpteen social groups to join if your not happy with what you see, so eventually the numbers will do the talking on this one


  17. Something I really hated about Jewbook is that made me see how incredibly dumb my normie friends were. I almost felt I was fucking Tesla compared to them.


  18. AC is a bug-ridden pile of unpredictable mess, but it’s great when it works. Just a shame there are only about 7 people who play it online on XB1.
    FM6 just works. You fire it up, there are hundreds if not thousands of people online waiting to race (it takes three or four races to weed out the numpties though).
    The presentation in FM6 is incredible. The frame rates are silky smooth (no other console racer can touch it).
    Oh, and Turn 10 can do ovals. A tricky bit of programming apparently that neither SMS or the self-proclaimed Lord of racing games can be bothered to tackle for us mere console step-children.


    1. Your fanboyism is so far up Microsofts ass even I can smell the shilling smells coming out of your anus. Ac is the best Sim you’ll ever play. Numbers speak, and boy am I positive with hiv.


    2. It might have the best representation and etc but it doesn’t help because as soon as you touch its “FFB” it feels like driving blindfolded, that wouldn’t be an issue if one have never tried sims with very good FFB, but after that there is no coming back. Then one will substitute graphics, presentation, other game features for the best driving feel e.g FFB.
      Of course if one plays with gamepad this might not apply.


  19. Hi James, come find me at my address:25 83DZ th . That’s where I’m anally fucking my buddies at when not with my Philippine whore or making shit simcade titles. My cock and ego will only improve with your cock up my anushole of doom.


  20. The sim community is pretty toxic to learners trying to make the jump from titles such as Forza. I remember the reaction I got when I expressed my suprise that the default config for a car in project cars cooked the engine within 3 laps of Le Mans. Apparently it is not realistic to expect a sim to have default settings that don’t damage your car

    Liked by 1 person

  21. I play PC sims with G27, triple screen for over 5 years now. ridox gt6 narrows the gap, not as good as the likes of ac or pcars but its no slouch effort. try this one if you want to be surprised by gt6,

    this guy puts it well about the car linked

    I just tried your Ayrton Senna tribute Acura NSX and I am seriously impressed. I have been getting less enjoyment from GT6 ever since I started playing PC sims 2 years ago, because all of the cars just feels wrong to me. But after applying your tune it completely transformed the feel of the car. I would say it gives Niels NSX in rFactor 1 and the mod NSX in Assetto Corsa a run for their money! When pushed hard the deficiencies in GT’s tire and suspension modelling still shows, but if you just drive it at 90% it is very realistic and believable. I drove it at Suzuka and I was completely on the edge at Spoon 1, with my steering and throttle stabs just like Senna’s 😀 It was fantastic and thank you for restoring my faith in this game :tup: I will definitely check out the rest of your tunes. Should keep me busy until GTS later in the year 😀


  22. I saw it too and I couldn’t vote, man, I just couldn’t. The recent NFS games don’t belong in that category I guess, because they’re closer to pure arcade racing and so better suited for another group. Sure, I understand why they would like to stay focused on one type of game, but being so rigid about it just seems a bit too much.

    I couldn’t vote because Forza and GT didn’t belong in the arcade category (for me at least). Sure, maybe they’re not hardcore sims, but then again are the F1 games hardcore sims? Is Dirt Rally a hardcore sim compared to RBR? And what about Dirt3, Racedriver Grid with its superfast LMP cars and (maybe you guys don’t remember it but I loved it) Master Rallye? What about the two SHIFT titles? Most of these are either sims with not so much detail or arcade games with a hint of realism. What I think most people don’t understand is that game studios need to make compromises to satisfy a larger crowd. This is why iRacing and R3E have mouse control, even if I have tried mouse control in another racing game and I can say that while I can easily do a one hour race with my wheel I’d probably hurt my wrist trying to drive for 60 minutes with a mouse. This is why GT, Forza, the Dirt series and many more have assists. Of the older games, GP4 is praised as a pretty solid game, but it had to please a large crowd too.

    So while the R3E guys are busy adapting their virtual gearbox, iRacing studying tarmac temperature and AC trying to get the grip of tyre models, some games don’t mind losing a bit of realism just to win game functionality. And that’s okay. The only problem is that they’re in a grey area where you can’t really tell how much of it is sim and how much arcade.

    My opinion is that we shouldn’t draw a very strict line there, because it’s so damn hard to define it. Sure, Need for Speed Most Wanted was an arcade racer, but the old NFS: Porsche and the newer SHIFT titles are in a gray area. What is Grand Prix 2 then? By 1994’s standards, it was a sim. Should we just exclude it from the group because it drives more like a simcade now or what?

    I decided I’ll just try to ignore the conflicts and elitism and focus on what I love about these games. And believe me, I’ve had as much fun driving Dirt3 that I did in GTR2, rFactor, R07, RBR, R3E and whatnot. It’s just that after RBR I was afraid to floor it on a rally stage so it took a bit of learning to be competitive in Dirt3 🙂 .

    P.S.: Stop fighting and get over it. Oh yeah and stop hating the NFS crowd, yo. How many of you were part of it some time ago?

    Liked by 1 person

  23. AC saying that Forza sucks is like the Turd saying that the Vomit stinks.

    Jokes aside, I have found better racers in PC based titles than in Forza 6. Being the open wheel vehicles my first choice isiMotor PC sims replicate them better than Forza in terms of handling… but that’s my opinion.

    Forza is ok to me but why would I waste my time playing it than be better in these other sims that I think have better physics?


  24. It’s gone from forum elitists to facebook elitists, I’d ask “what’s next?”, but I’m kinda worried what the answer would be…

    Kinda chuckled at the facebook guy having a mini-powertrip though.

    Liked by 1 person

  25. I honestly don’t understand all this “sim” elitism. Mario kart is a simulator in the sense of the word as it simulates racing. Years ago I used to simulate the Olympics on the master system with Olympic gold. Trying to say physics is what separates a simulator from arcade is just pointless. Every racing game is a simulator in its own right, as it simulates, you guessed it, racing.

    The divide in our niche community is so senseless it’s laughable. The iracing forum for instance is just full of people who jump at the chance to pull people down while trying to make them look silly. The community as a whole should be pulling together to attract more like minded people. This alienation of console racers is just killing the genre. Most people can’t afford to build a £1k PC then purchase all the hardware so they make the best of what they have. Why look down your nose at someone that may be less fortunate? It’s just pure basic snobbery.

    The players racing on what they like to call a “real sim” need to take a long hard look at themselves. Why belittle someone who enjoys the same thing you do, which is driving, all be it on a different title. It’s time they got over themselves and realised we are all doing the same thing, which is racing pixels around a screen. Weather it be Iracing, AC, Forza or even mario kart, it’s all just racing. The term “sim” in this community just gets used to make people feel they are better than others and it’s getting tiresome.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Nah, you don’t get to twist the definitions of the words to make you feel smarter. Mario Kart is not simulating racing – it IS racing: a competition where the goal is to be the first to reach a certain objective. It doesn’t matter if you use a controller, a multi million dollar car or a burlap sack. Mario Kart is not, however, a simulation, because it is not trying to model or replicate the properties and behavior of an actual environment. It uses fantasy vehicles that don’t follow the laws of physics, whereas games like rFactor or Forza attempt (up to different degrees, be it by choice or ability) to translate the variables involved in driving a car into a piece of code, so the users can get a feeling of the real thing.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. The point still stands though, as the issue isn’t people comparing Mario Kart to rFactor, it’s people being berated for playing Forza.


      2. But where do you draw the line? Every “sim” out there has it’s own flaws that would exclude it from being a “proper sim”. AC “simulates” a world with nothing else then sunny weather. Isn’t tackling weather a big part of racing?

        It’s video games. Some are trying to be authentic but none will ever get it completely right.


        1. Are the guys at Kunos trying to simulate weather? No, so clearly AC is not a racing on wet tarmac simulator. Are they trying to simulate the business side of running a racing team? No, so AC is not a simulator in that sense either. Are they trying to simulate the mechanical behavior of a car going fast on a track, investing years of development and collecting as much real data as possible, trying to replicate what happens in the real world? Absolutely yes, and that means it is, in that regard, a simulator.

          Once you know what the software is trying to accomplish you can judge how good of a simulation it provides by comparing it to the real thing, which can be relatively straightforward or maddeningly difficult depending on the subject. The problem with simulating cars is that there isn’t a 100% objective way to judge its accuracy, especially when you get different pilots (plus a myriad of internet experts) giving conflicting impressions based on their own perceptions behind the wheel, and all the telemetry data in the world is still not enough to guarantee that it is behaving as it should in all circumstances.

          Another separate problem is the way Kunos advertises the game as “your racing simulator”, when it should be called a driving simulator or, as many people call it, a hotlapping simulator.

          So, in short, there are always two main points of discussion that sometimes get confused:
          1) How accurate it is in what it actually simulates. Some rFactor2 shills in particular give AC shit on this, but most people seem to think it is quite good.
          2) What aspects it does not simulate, but should be reasonably expected to, given how it markets itself. This is undoubtedly the weakest aspect of AC.

          Avoiding simple words like ‘sim’ or ‘arcade’ because some people are too dense to use them properly or misuse them on purpose to shitpost and trigger other people online would accomplish nothing but lowering even more the intellectual level of these discussions.


          1. Ok. So AC should basically have “your dry track hotlap simulator” as a tagline.

            I do agree with you for the most part though. I’m just sick of all BS that get’s thrown around.

            Are Forza/GT/PCars sims? Yes they are. Are they any good? That’s totally up to you.


            1. There is more racing happening in AC than in the other sims.. so is just a hotlap simulator? I don’t think so. Maybe you don’t like the racing in AC compared to other sims you play, but that doesn’t make it a hotlap sim for everyone, when more players are racing in AC than in other sims, except with iracing maybe.


  26. As a member of that group, and I don’t particularly enjoy the arcade racers, I’m quite disappointed this went down. I didn’t even know a vote was going on. Less than 3% of members is not a majority and 24 hours is not enough time. Might as well rename the group Non-Arcade Sim Racers ™

    I may leave this group because of this but I do enjoy the daily iRenting rants about lapped cars taking out the leaders and knowing these guys are paying a subscription for it.

    Liked by 1 person

  27. Gran Turismo provided me with all the training I ever needed to step into both Iracing and PCars and compete.
    Forza too.
    Fuck FB. There’s a reason I’m not on it anymore.
    It’s hard not to start hating everyone on it that posts pictures of their lunch or vacation etc.
    or the rainbow brigade warriors who are some of the most awful human scum on the planet.
    Last thread on FB I participated in was a gay vs straight debate where the homos came in and wished the child of the parent they were attacking would be gay in the future. Because wouldn’t that be hilarious.
    Dumb ass snowflake millennial homos ruin everything for everyone.
    I’m sure they are likely at the root of the 3% that ruined this FB group.
    I hope they find a cure for it some day.
    Since it can’t be found in the genes. Only in the brain chemistry.
    Me personally, I just left the FagBook


  28. I’ve retired from GT6 since I’ve started to find it tiring. The PC sims I have are F1 Challenge, GTR2, and GP2. I stopped playing F1C after failing to install the Prototype C mod, and GTR2 and GP2 are only there to try car painting and AI racing fantasies.

    And thus, I’ve spend more time with GT2 and Asphalt 8 (>inb4 mobile arcade games/Windows 10 hate since I’m playing the Windows 10 version).

    Also, I’m kinda expecting PD/T10 shills (or people crying James as one) to be here, instead I saw Ridox shill(s) – some of my friends in a Discord server have issues with him, including his obsession with 276 HP numbers with JDM cars (most of those cars actually produced more, 276 HP/280 PS was an agreement by Japanese carmakers not to market cars with more that aforementioned power) and insistence on not using in-game ABS on his tunes since, according to him, real-life counterparts of cars he tuned don’t have it in real life. (Yeah, I know GT ABS isn’t flawless, hence some elitists on GTP who insist on ABS 0.)


    1. Shills ? Far from it, I thought this article relates well to GT6 being arcade and ridox happen to be giving different kind of cars to drive instead the generic tunes.

      Are you sure he insist on 276hp with JDM cars ? All i see is he’s using actual power. On ABS, don’t be blind, he never forced anyone to use it, he tuned without one, but he always write same thing at the end of every tune, ABS1 specific setting for those who used it. All i know is that he never use it in GT6, no hurting to anyone there. Most of my buddies who drive his cars are with ABS1, me included. there’s also this aventador sv tune of his that uses TC and ABS to simulate the car driving modes, it’s epic in unique way. another thing is he never forces anyone to use certain tire, the tire is what he sees as best fit for his approach of realism, anyone can use higher grip tires.

      if you ever meet him online, he’s very nice, helpful and polite, even when i asked ABS to be allowed in his room. That’s how I got to know the guy in 1st place, in his testing lobby among with several other dudes that now are my PSN friends. I lurk on GTP, not a member there, from what I read on his thread, not a single one swear word or outburst, i even thought he’s a monk or something when there are trolls that tried to yank his chain.

      The only people that could possibly found him unpleasant are those who hate him of his views and works.


      1. >The only people that could possibly found him unpleasant are those who hate him of his views and works.

        Yeah, I guess those people on that Discord server are sort of jealous towards him, although some of their complaints were IMO valid. One of his complaints that kinda irks me is about the accuracy of the Bay Side Blue paint chip – he says the one that came with Standard R34 GT-Rs are more accurate than the one coming from the Premium GT-R R34.


  29. I voted yes so dont blame me for this shit.
    Maybe because i started with a joystick and indy 500 on an xt pc i have a broader experience of sim racing? I mean when did sim racing begin? You could mash the throttle in indycar racing but in indycar 2 you would spin… is one of these fuckwit millenials going to tell me i didnt start sim racing till assetto corsa? Seriously i think u might be right about iracing fucking things up because back in the gpl era things were great!


  30. I’m quite glad to see Gran Turismo getting at least some respect around these corners; as a more casual racing fan who usually just throws myself at sim racers, plays badly, and yet has fun anyways, I recently got Gran Turismo 6 as a present and found myself incredibly engrossed in it. Really wide variety of cars and tracks, unexpected degrees of depth to the customization, and getting to drive stock cars meant it basically was everything I was hoping for from Project CARS (it even has ovals!).

    Casual audiences may be an irritation to those who consider themselves “hardcore”, but… y’know, it’s a niche market. People should at least be able to have their fun. (Admittedly, that’s probably not going to stop me from yelling at my friends that only consider Mario Kart worth playing, though.)


  31. Can’t we just ban the word “simulation”? At the end of the day it’s all just games. I you wanna sit there in your expensive racing seat with cheesy gloves on and shit, please do, but you are still just playing video games.


    1. You are 100% right. People sitting on their expensive rigs, paying expensive monthly fees to race in a game, and yet they claim their shit is like THE real shit, makes me laugh.

      GT6, Forza, AC, rFactor, AMS, etc, are all racing and/or driving games. Claiming which of them is a sim, or an arcade, is nonsense, because none of them simulates 100% the real thing.


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