I Didn’t Enjoy the Forza 7 Demo

Let me first start by saying I greatly appreciate Turn 10’s gesture in bringing the seventh iteration of their massively popular car collecting software to the home computer – turning what was once an Xbox exclusive into a multi-platform release – as game developers typically don’t do this sort of thing. I also want to mention that I’ve extracted an enormous amount of playtime from the series on the Xbox 360, back when the franchise was arguably at its peak.

And while some scoffed at the release of Forza: Horizon in 2012, and questioned if the right creative decisions were being made on that front, I was what you could call an early supporter of the dudebro spin-off; I held a few opening week records – including the world record on the final boss romp for a short period of time – and played Horizon far beyond completion, almost excessively. Hell, I bought the complete rip-off known as the Horizon Rally expansion and flew through the reconfigured map in just under ninety minutes, so it’s safe to say that I wasn’t going into the Forza 7 demo with any kind of negative bias. If anything, I’ve been advocating for more of these experiences to come to the PC.

But contextually, Forza Motorsport 7 is probably the worst driving game I’ve ever played. Sure, maybe Monster Truck Rumble is objectively a lesser product, but going into it, you knew it would be bad. What’s Forza 7’s excuse? I just don’t understand how a mammoth quasi-first party team with a gigantic budget and near-infinite resources can create something that absolutely does not resemble what it’s like to drive a real car at competition speeds. I have been more entertained at the mainstream pieces drooling over the Forza 7 demo than actually playing the game itself; Forza is not a simulator or even a competent driving game in the first place, but rather a litmus test to see who actually understands vehicle dynamics, and which gaming journalists take the bus to work. I had genuine hopes that Forza 7 arriving on the PC would shake up our genre and offer a valid alternative to the bore-fests that are polluting sim racing at the moment, but Turn 10 really dropped the ball.

So to give you a cliff’s notes version of all multi-day race car driving schools across the planet, any sort of good race car driver that is routinely seen at the front of the pack in their respective classes essentially pilots their car in a very similar manner. They come barrelling into corner entry until they physically worry about their inability to stop, jump on the brakes as hard as possible to both rotate the ass end of the car & set the vehicle on the bottom of the track at the apex (my entire left leg vibrates in our car), and then as quickly as possible, feed the rear tires enough throttle to pivot the car on the outside rear tire. Provided you exhibit the correct amount of throttle aggression in relation to the radius of the corner, corner exit can be completed with a nearly straight steering wheel because you’re basically steering with your right foot and pivoting the car like an athlete planting his foot to make a cut until you achieve full throttle. This is how I drive in real life. This is how I drive in hardcore sims, if not most racing games. This is why I’m fast in basically every piece of software with cars in it. This is a universal competition driving style that crosses continents and disciplines and realities. There, saved you $3,000, if not more.

There’s even a good quote from Tanner Foust on this same subject.

tanner foust.jpg

Forza 7’s problem is that none of this works. And if this was like, a Steam game for $19.99 in Early Access, then yeah, fine, I probably wouldn’t give a shit. But this is Forza Motorsport, the simulator with over seven hundred cars, more tracks than we know what to do with, and the unofficial title of being Gran Turismo’s spiritual successor – as even GT fans can’t quite figure out what Kaz is doing with the franchise that started this whole car collection phenomenon. Oh, and there’s the Porsche partnership, the Pirelli partnership, and even Ford stepped in a while back. I don’t understand how you have this much access to technical data, and the end result is so disconnected and abstract.

First, weight transfer and inertia in Forza is exponentially greater than what you experience in real life. Yes, if you’re unready for the G-Forces or have been out of the car for some time, it can be a bit disorienting at first to launch the car into a braking zone, but it’s 100% a human thing – the car itself remains relatively stable provided you’re not a complete fucking retard and panic with jerky wheel and pedal inputs. The Porsche GT2RS offered in one of the three demo races does not feel like an ultra-refined track day warrior that Christian Grey might take to the Nordschleife when he’s ran out of hotties to abuse, but rather has the stability and precision of a Ford Transit Van. In any heavy braking zone, or drastic elevation changes for that matter that predominantly load up one side of the car – of which there are a lot at the Dubai canyon track – the car just fucking snaps into the trademark molasses drift Forza is known for.

It’s like driving an EnduRacers mod, where the car swings wildly about at the slightest of undulations or wheel inputs or… basically anything that isn’t a straight line, but unlike their notoriously bizarre rFactor 2 mods, you can’t rely on the tires to catch you here. I have never played a racing game where the tires have such an absurdly low limit of adhesion as what’s exhibited in Forza 7. You can be coasting through an uphill corner at 70 km/h in second gear, feet completely off both pedals, and the rear end will just wash out into a skid that makes you look completely incompetent behind the wheel. There is no sidewall flex. There is no lateral grip. It’s a very distinct on/off switch between adhesion, and hitting phantom black ice. This is how Forza thinks tires work, but I can assure you that this is not how they work in the real world, nor in most other simulators worth your time. So the whole competition driving technique of loading up the outside rear tire and powering off with a bit of counter-steer is completely out of the question.

Whether you’re driving the Porsche GT2RS around Dubai, or the SuperGT-spec Nissan R35 at the Nurburgring GP circuit, what ends up happening is that you pussy-foot around at much slower speeds than what these cars are capable of, under-driving to such an extent that any prolonged period of play is going to actively diminish your skill set when it comes to other simulators. I’m under the impression that Forza’s physics engine was designed with pad users in mind, basically as a way to encourage teenagers and casuals to play it safe and focus on smooth driving lines. In the hands of someone armed with a steering wheel and real world competition driving experience, it is objectively the worst driving game on the market. Cars don’t drive like this. Tires don’t work like this.

I look forward to the Metacritic aggregate of 95 it will undoubtedly receive come October, from guys who either take the bus to work, or whose previous driving experience can be listed as “I play Mario Kart as a drinking game with my old college friends when we meet up.”

So I think a lot of Forza fanboys will kick and scream that my wheel wasn’t configured correctly. Actually, I spent the first hour or so with the game fiddling with the options menu, and above are my G29 settings to give people a very good indication as to what in my opinion feels sensible behind the wheel. I’ve seen a lot of complaints about Forza’s force feedback over the years, but to give this game a proper shakedown I worked to find settings that were optimal for me. Obviously I would like to know why a monolithic company with hundreds of employees are shipping a game with default steering wheel settings that are completely unusable and might be the source of several refunds for the more casual racers among us, but I felt I was able to get something that felt right with the tools at hand – so I’ve provided my personal configuration to ensure as few people get stuck as possible. Again, my complaints are with the physics engine itself. Even with a wheel configuration that I found to be perfect, I just didn’t enjoy the actual on-track experience. It was fucking terrible.

It’s also noteworthy to mention that nowhere in the demo are you allowed to fiddle with car setups. Yet while the Forza fans may crucify me for ripping on default setups that are notoriously bad, and maybe the game becomes infinitely better once garage options are opened up, the question needs to be asked why a team of such high caliber insist on packaging their cars with setups that are completely preposterous and actively work against one’s enjoyment of the game. Either the crew behind Forza have precisely zero idea as to what’s needed for an enjoyable end-user experience from the word go, or as mentioned earlier, the physics just flat-out suck. I will gamble and say it’s the latter of the two.

And while I was already choked to discover such an abysmal driving experience, the marketing department really competed for the focus of my attention during the inevitable tirade that would be published on PRC. The restart race button has actually been excluded from the demo, meaning that the process of me physically testing out different wheel settings – and then taking a journey back to the options menu after only a few turns – was increased by an exponentially large amount.

Once you’ve either finished or outright quit an event, the game plays a semi-unskippable cinematic sequence displaying the plethora of awards Forza 7 won during E3 2017 of this year, and running down a list of supporting features before finally giving you the option to dismiss it all about fifteen to twenty seconds later. Of course, you’re not even thrown directly back to the menu so you can continue to fuck with your wheel settings and repeat the process ad nauseam, you’re then taken to a screen in which you’re given the option of pre-ordering one of the three variants of Forza 7. This was absolutely painful to sit through.

And maybe it would have been acceptable if behind the wheel, Forza 7 was pretty competent, and didn’t require a solid hour of tweaking. My problem is that I’m forced to watch a game brag about awards that I personally didn’t understand how it received in the first place. In my almost twenty years of PC sim racing, some titles have come unbelievably close to what it’s like to drive in a competitive setting. Forza Motorsport 7, by comparison, is the furthest from reality I have ever experienced. I still think a lot of people will have some fun with it for the light RPG and car collecting aspects, and that’s fine. But after my time with the demo, anyone who honestly sits down and tries to say Forza 7 is anywhere near realistic, or drives anything like an actual car, is an actual idiot. I fail to understand how there’s this much money and hype pumped into what’s basically a first-party Xbox title at this point, only for the on-track product to be so farcical.

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187 thoughts on “I Didn’t Enjoy the Forza 7 Demo

          1. iRacing President Tony Gardner

            “Just an update. Our Rally Cross project is still coming along nicely. It is looking like the initial launch will be two cars and three or four circuits. Not sure on the exact timing but it should be this year. Probably within about a month, we can give a better window for the release.

            We also are making good progress on the much-requested feature, new license capability. For example, adding both a dirt oval and dirt road (rally cross) license including iRating & Safety Rating etc. It has taken a while as our whole system, database, license and skill structure was hard-coded for just road and oval licenses. However a good shot we will have the new licenses (dirt oval & dirt road) in our next season build.

            We also are working on heat racing functionality for both official racing and hosted racing. Much more on this soon but this new functionality also has a good chance of rolling out this year. We are ideally rolling this capability out with Rally Cross racing for example. We would also set up some dirt oval and short track pavement series with this new functionality! (When the timing is right, for example at the start of a new season).

            Although each series does things a little differently, heat racing generally would work very similar to the way it works in the real world and includes some nice functional flexibility. Heat racing, for those not familiar, is short races leading up to the main feature race (A-Main) or the consolation race (B-Main). In iRacing, the mini-tournament would all be part of a single session and the whole thing might last for example 45 minutes. For official racing, it would still be part of an overall series.

            There also are much more really great projects in development obviously (more on those later) besides the LMP1 Cars we announced today but I thought I would update on rally cross and a couple projects that are related.”

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  1. I’ll probably still pick it up for the car collecting provided they carried over the custom races/championship feature fo fh3. It has the best collection of jdm econoboxes, despite losing toyota. I kinda hope pc2 gets some more jdm cars, but i reckon i’m in the minority there.

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      1. FH2 actually had great FFB and the physics were fine. I drove the virtual version of my IRL car and it felt perfect to me. When FM6 dropped, I assumed they’d build on the excellent underlying systems of FH2.

        Instead, they went off on a bizarre new tangent and now have both the worst FFB and the worst physics of any racing game I’ve played in the last 5 years. FM7 has the same horrible FFB as FM6/FH3.

        Only gamepad players need to bother with these.

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  2. I keep wanting Forza to impress me and make up for the ridiculous card systems and overload of DLC, but it never seems to. Thanks for saving me 22GB of hard drive space, and I’m at least glad others enjoyed the first Horizon as much as, or more than, I have. I keep wondering if Forza Horizon 3 is worth it (not buying an Xbone just for FH2 until it’s dirt cheap) and yet that massively inflated price tag keeps putting me off no matter what they add in. It feels like an issue with games in general nowadays; enticing feature list, but once it entices you enough to buy, it stops trying.

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    1. Horizon 3 physics is a LOT like the demo of Forza 7. It’s pretty hit and miss: some cars are great (like Mercedes stuff) and others are very uneven (modern Porsches). I’m actually quite surprised: Forza Apex (and 6) feels much better and much more sim like than both modern iterations.

      Liked by 2 people

  3. No offense dude but you’re not driving correctly if you think this. I thought the Porsche was an undrivable piece of shit too but once I learned that you have to keep the throttle down in corners to keep the rear end planted I can do the whole race without spinning out once.

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    1. >racing advice from pro race drivers, for race drivers
      “that doesn’t work in my video game, so i think you’re wrong.”

      well mate, the evidence here suggests that you are wrong.

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  4. Your CliffsNotes paragraph is what this blog needs more of.

    As for Forza Motorsport, it’s probably the last racing series I would want to play. With Horizon, you know exactly what you’re getting and you don’t have to take it seriously, but FM has all that racing content officially licensed, and the only thing you can do is wiggle the car around turns hoping the stone tires don’t start sliding. It’s incredibly frustrating. Everybody says you have to try a racing game to know how it handles, but just watching a few videos of FM7 tells you everything you need to know. Not gonna waste the bandwidth.

    I wonder if there’s been any effort since FM3 to make the cars feel more authentic. To me it was always like this, while Gran Turismo had made some major improvements in tire feel and weight transfer. Forza is still making shiny 3D boxes that kinda glide around an environment.

    An LMP1 should not drive like a 70s Mustang.

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  5. Convenient that the demo cars/tracks are not IRL series so no laptimes.

    I went and tried the R35 GT3 in AC and ran a 2:14 in a matter of 2 laps with no setup (having not played the car for a year or two) so now I’m using that as a baseline for comparison. Although of course you can’t really draw a close comparison from GT3 and GT500, or ‘shitty track’ (AC) vs ‘dynamic raining’ (f7)

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    1. Er, should have been clearer about my point. I’m comparing 2.14 to what journalists reviewing it manage, since I’m too lazy to play it.

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              1. GT500 cars are actually faster than LMP2, they are about as fast as privateer LMP1 cars from a few years ago. They use the same aero/chassis as DTM with more powerful engines and better tyres.

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                1. SGT500 teams actually openly challenged WEC to either allow them as wildcards for the WEC Fuji 1000km race or at least hold a high speed demonstration of LMP1s and SGT500s going head to head at full speed to show that they were as fast, if not faster,

                  But of course FIA/ACO refused.

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  6. I thought the demo was terrible.Dubai track was boring.The handling on Forza will never be accurate because of all the upgrades & the need to make controller users as competitive as wheel users.I think Forza 7 will make money but I think many longtime players will be dissapointed by the lack of new tracks & realism.Ultimately Turn 10 are car guys.They are not racers and it shows.

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  7. “I’m so great, look at me…LOOK AT ME! I race real cars with my superb driving technique, i find myself so amazing and i want everyone to know that”

    This article in a nuttshell…

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        1. You don’t need to be an ‘SMS guy’ to see that FM7 is mediocre at best. The demo is getting a lukewarm reception everywhere and I expect the full game to do the same, except for those with very low expectations who are easily pleased.

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            1. Yep. FM4 is what got me into this whole simracing thing. I preordered the highest-tier versions of FM5/6 and FH2/3.

              But FM7 gets a pass. They refuse to fix their FFB, when they already had really good FFB in FM4 and (even better) in FH2. T10 seems to have given up on wheel users entirely.

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          1. its like he didn’t even try. i mean, at the very least you can always google a word and get the corrected spelling. there really is no excuse.

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  8. Project CARS is powered by the revolutionary Seta Tire Model (STM) that plays a key role in making the WMD-powered title the most authentic virtual racing experience. An order of magnitude higher simulation value than any competitors.

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  9. Few months ago you were praising Forza 6: “The competent driving model is complimented by what’s easily the best artificial intelligence in a modern racing simulator”. Did Ian write this piece for you?

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        1. Of course they’re going backwards.

          Sim value: FH2 > FM4 > FM5 > FM6 > FH3 > FM7 demo.

          I’m serious. That ordering is 100% accurate. Only the FM4 to FH2 transition demonstrates *forward* progress in terms of FFB and physics quality.

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          1. I feel like Forza Motorsport series has become a more realistic version of the Project Gotham Racing games, while Horizon 3 has more to do with NFS than with a lighthearted version of the Motorsport games (FH 1&2).

            Hell, I can bet money that FM7 single player still doesn’t let you set up quail and practice sessions.

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  10. Agree, it’s pretty bad even after fiddling with the settings and dealing with the shit demo layout

    Signed,

    Pretty competent IRL Time Attack driver.

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  11. Since I haven’t played a Forza game after 3 (which my 17 year old self adored) I might get this, just so I can have fun racing and testing hundreds upgradable cars on shitload of different tracks while looking at pretty graphics.

    It’s still gonna be miles better and more complete than any recent Gran Turismo.

    Only 1 problem: I need to get Windows 10 for this thing.

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        1. Skip it and play FM4. The car selection was great, the FFB good and the physics good enough. Their rendition of the E63 BMW M6 (a car I had at the time IRL, and one I really miss) was actually spot-on.

          Maybe get an old Fanatec CSR wheel (I had a CSR Elite, which was overkill but Hey). FM4 was/is a classic. It’s been downhill ever since.

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      1. Yep, I should buy Assetto Corsa or something, which is still half assed, has development slow as molasses, and requires from me to throw shit load of money just to get most of the overpriced DLCs.

        Will do xdd

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  12. Forza died in the 4th iteration which was the pinnacle of the series. after the introduction of XBONE Dan Greenawalt went full “salesman” and the franchise become something of a bastardize hipster mix of GT/NFS/FH/PGR

    Fuck you Microsoft

    RIP Forza

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Wasn’t Forza 4 the one which completely ruined the pretty believable performance of LMP cars present in FM3 by making them 8 seconds per lap slower?

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      1. True, though the rest of the game was an improvement on every level compared to F3 including the physics. speaking of which till F4 T10 were using tire telemetry data from pirreli, it was in F5 where they said “fuck that from now on we’ll use our own data we gather from Calspan”

        Pirelli

        Calspan
        “The physics have undergone some major reworking as well, mostly thanks to Microsoft/Turn 10’s collaboration with Calspan, the research and testing laboratory founded in 1943 by the old Curtiss-Wright aircraft company. Calspan is one of the premier engineering and aerospace testing and analysis companies, and Microsoft approached them when they realized how little data tire companies had for how their tires perform at extreme (10%+ over peak, extreme drift conditions, etc.) conditions.

        The partnership with an independent laboratory freed them from collaborating with one manufacturer as before, and now data is gathered from any number of tires. Other components like suspension behavior, road surfaces, aerodynamic forces and more have all been tested far more extensively, and all that data has been made available for the new physics engine to use.

        The engineer was clearly very proud of this, and maintained that the research they’re doing is not just the best ever done for games, it’s the most comprehensive for the world. Apparently all this was key to their inclusion of open-wheel cars, which require more information about tire flex, carbon fiber flexing, and I’m sure all kinds of other flexing as well.”

        All the above are just marketing BS ofcourse it’s intresting though because it shows that the dumbing down on the tire physics started when they began the collaboration with Calspan

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      1. Absolutely. 4 was mint. 5 was a insulting travesty and a knife through the heart of the franchise. Only Horizon is keeping the brand relevant. Albeit for 8 year olds.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. At least those 8 year olds might become sesnsible enough to not waste crazy amounts of dollars on expensive toy wheels and sim rigs. And will grow up playing complete, quality video games.

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  13. Forza 7 was never going to be realistic or great with a wheel and I don’t think it tries to either. It’s strengths are it’s car roster and a solid career with car upgrades.

    I decided to play the demo with my Xbox One controller instead of my G29 and I thought it was fairly decent, I didn’t like the Porsche though. I’d rather something different than a game trying and failing at being realistic. A separate mode with a better physics model, better FFB and more tracks would have been nice though.

    Even if you don’t like the game, you have to give them props for providing a demo and an extremely optimised game. My i5 4690K and RX 480 could hold 4K 60FPS with the game nearly maxed. I’m not sure Project Cars 2 will be anywhere as optimised.

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    1. Everything in Project CARS 2 is calculated on the fly, though. Forza is as static is it gets. That doesn’t take away from the optimization and the nice-looking backdrops, but there’s a reason they can manage that.

      I get it, people like to look at cars and don’t want to feel incompetent, so they play Forza and don’t mind that nothing is happening except random wiggling and bumping, nor that they are racing a Bugatti Veyron against an Indycar, or that the F1 driver is letting go of the steering wheel to paddle shift. No probz.

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      1. Wouldn’t that just be more demanding on the CPU?

        I haven’t played any Forza game since 4 so I can’t comment on the newer ones but it does sound like the series has gotten more casual orientated with each release, I’ve been playing Forza 2 of late and doesn’t do anywhere as much hand holding.

        Turn 10 have the resources to make a “hardcore” mode where the physics could be better, but I guess that won’t happen.

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        1. The physics calculations are certainly CPU-bound, but I wonder how much of the shadows, lighting and other visual effects are just baked into the circuits so that the GPU doesn’t have to work very hard. GT and FM have night and rain events, but they are on a separate version of the circuit, which would support the idea that it’s more like a painting that you race in.

          Similarly, Aerofly FS has beautiful Swiss mountains and a great draw-distance while also running super smoothly with downsampling, because there’s almost nothing that’s dynamic. It’s just displaying assets, really.

          Project CARS 2 has a changing track surface, time of day, weather effects and dynamic lighting, and this requires different reflections and shadow calculations, for example. This kind of flexibility is not possible in a static world like Forza. I’d really like to understand how this stuff works in depth. The Witcher 3 was another example of very flexible and dynamic conditions, although it didn’t affect physics and was simply aesthetic.

          There’s a reason these games are so nice-looking and 60 fps on consoles. I played a lot of FM3 and FM4, but when I got Race Pro, I just couldn’t go back. I tried FM5 at the store and then Forza 6 Apex on PC, and to me they look so dead and bland, very old-school, and not in a good way. Shiny, but empty.

          I played 1, 3, 4 and a bit of 5 and 6, but I couldn’t say if the core has changed. I get the feeling they’re just not trying to evolve, that they’re satisfied making these interactive car guides.

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  14. Sweden: Deranged Trans-Lesbos Demanding to be Banned from Female-Only Festival

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/09/17/transgender-row-swedens-man-free-music-festival/

    The new and improved “gender spectrum” developed by Tumblr is very progressive and gives everyone new opportunities to signal their liberal virtue. However, it’s also starting to cause some problems for these people.

    Because all lines are blurred, the distinction between “their camp” of progressive victims and “our camp” of evil oppressors is becoming harder to define (for them). Now that you have lesbians LARPing as evil patriarchs, are they supposed to be banned by feminists?

    A female-only music festival decided to ban males on the basis of whether they’re trannies or not. That is to say, women LARPing as men where still considered “part of the sisterhood.”

    Big mistake.

    It seems like the trannies are divided into two factions: on one side, you have the hard-core LARPers who want to be treated exactly like their fake gender in order to satisfy their sick fetish, while on the other you have the hobbyists who want to be included in everything and have all the privileges of both men and women.

    But none of this really matter, because these people are mentally ill. They can all change their positions – and their demands – at any time under the flimsiest of pretenses.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if next year the same festival bans women pretending to be men, and they make a huge row about it, claiming that the festival needs to be more “inclusive” of oppressed minorities.

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    1. WTF are these pointless posts?

      What happened to Dr. Kondor with his interesting essay like comments and diagnoses or that Hash guy who would get more triggered than a war veteran having frontline flashbacks, instead we get this out of place nonsene.

      PRC comment sections used to be so colorful, (no racial undertones behind this word) I miss that.

      This time though, I can address this one, few years ago I was sure I were a woman trapped in a man’s body or a similar shit like that, and after a while I realised it was just in my head, so there’s that.

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      1. There are now two types of bandwagon shitposters on PRC: those who bandwagon on James’ association with SMS, and those who bandwagon on James’ right-wing political views. These nonsensical posts belong to the second category.

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  15. But it doesn’t have shadow flickering and LODs pop-in or windows not reflecting/being transparent during night like in pCARS2.

    Basically all major graphical issues that date all the way back to the mid ’00s.

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  16. I played it last night and then uninstalled. Never at any time did I feel like I was driving a fast moving vehicle. Feels like the car is floating on air. Thought it was horrible. The rain FX were nice though.

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  17. I tried the FM7 demo and uninstalled it within 15 minutes.

    It’s that bad.

    Unless you’re using an Xbox controller (I didn’t bother – why would I with a full sim rig?), this game is a travesty. The FFB is THE WORST I HAVE EVER EXPERIENCED. It’s the same super-shitty FFB as in FH3, only worse. Instant snap oversteer *whenever a tire loses grip*.

    As in: Any tire. Front or rear. Oversteer.

    So, you’ve got a “driving sim” where locking the front wheels results in…a canned oversteer effect that’s exactly the same for every vehicle. Nice.

    Look, I’m not some snob. I thought the FFB in F1 2017 was good enough. But this shit? This is unplayable.

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  18. What the fuck is going on with those race suits? One looks like Leica the space dog and another looks like he can’t decide whether to go golfing in the 70s or skiing.

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  19. I’ve enjoyed a lot of the Forza series over the years and the 7 demo is ok for me. They didn’t deliver the promised wheel feedback development in the demo and I have to agree with many of your points – the Porsche in particular is awful on the wheel.

    That said it’s worth noting Ian Bell was on that YouTube livestream yesterday saying that ‘the Microsoft owned press’ weren’t giving pcars2 a fair showing in favour of Forza – that could well be true. No surprise to see this Forza article on PRC though because this is effectively a pcars owned ‘press’ outlet and what better way to administer a kicking and deflect from/move a few sales to his own product. I’m not knocking your article or the tactics, it is the market at work, just noting what is out there and maybe why.

    Looking forward to playing pcars2 tomorrow and Forza next week to make my own mind up. Best time yet to be both a gamer in general and race gamer.

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  20. So seems the physics didn’t got any better since FM 5 and this was the start for this ridiculous physics-engine. Project Cars 2 is at least far better than this shit, but what i tried so far is not up to today’s sim-standards as well even the tyres are good.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I’m instead turning laps to troubleshoot and make sure that slip-ups and inaccuracies don’t make their way into the final game you’ll have the option to purchase in late September.

      – Austin Ogonoski July 2017

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    2. I’m speechless at the first clip at Fuji. It’s like the ai cars don’t even try to brake, instead they go head-on into walls at full throttle.

      Where did I read that the ai was optimized for the modern cars, I wonder?

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      1. I’m going to see if I can replicate some of that. I did a 25-lap race at Laguna Seca using over 20 AI-controlled BMW M1’s at 100% difficulty and 50% aggro.

        While it wasn’t perfect (you really had to avoid taking advantage of their train-like crawl through the first corners, and not really start racing until lap 2 – which is very AC-like), there was nothing crazy like what’s in that video.

        They didn’t dive-bomb me in the corners and they actually seemed to prefer setting up a clean line and then passing me on corner exit (which is cool). Overall it felt pretty good: Similar to AC prior to the “RTR” patch. I haven’t tested how they handle pitting, etc. That’s an area only rF2 seems to have really mastered.

        I think the problem is that they’ve got so damn many different types of cars. Maybe they’ll get busy polishing the AI for each class? Or maybe that’s a feature for PC3. Only SMS knows for sure.

        Like

  21. Tried PC2 last night. I just did hotlaps (the 4 y/o exercised his veto powers over anything more extensive) and was incredibly impressed with the FFB and physics of the Formula A, Formula X, and the Ford Fusion Stock Car.

    Anyone involved with the development of those cars deserves a big Thank You. The Formula A is, IMHO, one of the most enjoyable open wheel cars I’ve ever tried in a sim (and that includes the new F2004 in AC). It’s wickedly quick and will swap ends if provoked, but it’s got that “Just One More Lap” factor big-time. Same with the F-X and stock car. The default “Loose” setups for all these cars is excellent as well.

    I’m sure some cars will be duds (the same is true in every sim). But I tried the open-wheels first because I heard those weren’t done well. Whoever said that is nuts. The Formula A and Formula X are *amazing*.

    Wheel settings (TM TX wheel):
    TM Control Panel: 100% on everything, 900deg.
    In-game: Everything at 70 except Effects (50), “Informative”.

    Graphics are iffy and demanding. The AA in particular is pretty bad for how much GPU it needs. My 1080ti struggled at 4k when it rained.

    The water simulation is unbelievably good and really feels like a wet track. You get drying lines and everything, but it takes a while (so you might not realize it).

    Tonight, I’ll check out the AI. But so far, it’s looking really good. One thing: The FFB doesn’t feel like rF2 to me. It feels very similar to Raceroom (and that’s a good thing).

    Like

    1. Hehe there is allready 2 threads inside the iRacing forum where the fanboys struggles really hard to tell others that pCars 2 is a complete waste of time.
      But as can be seen by the number of about 14000!! viewers these relatively few fanatic fanboys fight an impossible fight against a lot of more openminded iRacers who allready (veeery carefully:-) are whispering that this maybee could be a competitor to holy iRacing.

      Like

    2. I changed my mind regarding pCars 2 since my SimVibe-setup is running. I think it’s by far the best sim regarding tyre-model and the tactile feedback from every tyre/shaker is just amazing. FFB is a mix of Raceroom and iRacing IMO with superior tyre-flex-model.

      Like

        1. The AI kinda sucks ass. Depends on the car/track though. M1’s at Laguna Seca was real iffy. Definitely worse than AC, rF2 or Raceroom right now with AI, but not as bad as what ISR said in their (otherwise excellent) review.

          They tried to do too many cars at once. I hope they *commit* to fixing the AI this time, and don’t announce PC3 in a month instead. It took AC years to get the AI good.

          AI seems to require a committed, iterative approach. SMS ain’t real good with that. The moment sales velocity starts to decrease, they tend to lose interest and start announcing new games. Here’s hoping they prove me wrong.

          Anyway, may not matter. The GTP-ZX alone might be worth the price of admission. Just hotlapping that monster in the wet at Spa is one of the best sim experiences I’ve had.

          Like

          1. I agree with you and James that there is too much stuff, especially considering how many conditions and levels of grip there are. Even with their guy going through all the content to fix stuff over the next 3 months, it’s just obvious some stuff will never be clean.

            I don’t mind, because the sheer quantity of stuff to do, the multiclass and whatever works on any circuit is good enough for me right now. It’s an approach that leaves SMS open to criticism, but between other games that play it safe and bore me and this, the choice is easy.

            The stock car doesn’t replace the one in rF2, the FWD is not as tight as Raceroom, the consistency is not AC level, but taken as a whole, it’s ahead of the others for me.

            I have so much stuff to try, I’ll add the GTP-ZX to the list.

            Like

            1. The GTP-ZX was the only thing from the 80’s that was cooler than the TIE Interceptor. I mean – just *look* at it. I feel like the one in PC2 has way too much low-speed grip in the rear (it’s really hard to spin the tires unless you’ve just done a burnout), but it sure is fun to drive regardless. It’s infinitely less squirrely than AC’s C9.

              No idea if that’s realistic or not – I never once drove anything with what I’d consider serious downforce IRL, but I’m pretty sure that, unless you’re racing on the surface of Venus, you shouldn’t be generating much DF at 40mph, coming out of a hairpin. And yet, the GTP-ZX’s rear sticks like bubble gum on hot asphalt – even with full throttle and 900bhp. Huh.

              I hear you re: the PC2 package, as a whole, being the most entertaining game I own atm. The addition of believable weather, drying lines ( I saw a puddle dry up!), night racing, etc. These things really spice up the action and make the “fair weather” sims seem bland.

              Man – If they could only improve that AI.

              Like

              1. Could be that the tires and gearing made the car safe at low speeds, as long as you stay away from the turbo.

                I’m going to work some older multiclass stuff in my routine, apparently, and with the Classic Le Mans coming, oh boy…

                I just did a free run in the Mégane Touring in light rain, 7 AM in autumn at the Nord. Nothing like that anywhere else. Super clean looking, sun through the foliage, 75 fps, big reflections on the tarmac max MSAA on a RX 580.

                Time to do a “WTCC” race now.

                Like

                  1. It’s hard to tell much from that vid. What seems really odd is that I can turn the turbo all the way up, then floor it out every low-speed corner and never get more than just a hint of power oversteer. You’d have to *intentionally* spin the thing. Even when you do that, it’s really difficult and you almost have to put one wheel on the grass to get it sliding.

                    The ISR review mentioned something similar about the R89C in the rain. The rear is basically glued down.

                    I tried the C9, with full turbo pressure, at Road America. Even coming out of the low speed corners, it’s almost impossible to spin the car. So, either AC got it wrong and these cars were much more docile than we thought, or something’s wrong with PC2’s depiction.

                    Here’s an article about driving the GTP-ZX I found:
                    https://petrolicious.com/articles/what-its-like-to-race-a-nissan-gtp-zx-turbo-at-age-23

                    Some quotes re: the GTP-ZX from Theo Bean:

                    “It’s pretty planted, really. Compared to some of the cars I’ve driven, it’s planted… but when it does get away from you it requires a lot of corrections. It’s definitely not easy to drive but it sticks. Through the Horseshoe at Circuit of the Americas [COTA], through those corners it feels like it has unlimited stick—like you could drive it upside-down. In the lower speed corners it’s kind of tough.”

                    “It is, by far, the most violent and brutal car I’ve ever driven. It’s a little technical because it doesn’t behave like a normal car. For instance, there’s no front sway bar so you have to put giant springs on it to stiffen it up. You have to give the rear a ton of toe so it’ll turn, because it under-steers pretty bad through the slow stuff.”

                    So, I’m not sure. He says it really sticks, but that’s in mid-speed corners. He specifically says it’s a handful at low speed (but could be talking about its infamous low speed understeer) and also that “when it does get away from you it requires a lot of corrections”. That doesn’t really match my experience with the car so far (it’s incredibly quick, but docile), but maybe that’s setup-related or maybe I’m not pushing hard enough.

                    Need more data 🙂

                    Like

                    1. I just spun it at COTA trying to make it turn in 2nd gear, so I can see the problem. The grip is there, but like anything else, if you force it to go faster, it bites you. It’s not a car you want to play with over the limit. I haven’t played AC in ages, so I don’t remember the C9.

                      How come this never ran Le Mans? I’ll have to play with it some more to see what it can do, especially with the top speed, which is lacking considering the type of circuit it was built for.

                      Like

                    2. Group C at the time was a fuel economy formula. GTP wasn’t. Tough to adapt the engines from GTP to Group C prior to Group C’s ill-fated switch to the 3.5L NA formula.

                      Are you saying you managed to get the GTP-ZX to spin in 2nd gear? I had a hard time provoking it.

                      Like

                    3. Turn 13, after two laps, so not on cold tires.

                      I’m not saying it’s very menacing, you can easily throw it around, but hey it happened. Anyway, I wonder how much access to that car SMS had during development, or any other studio. 😉

                      Liked by 1 person

              2. I tried the GTP-ZX and the C9 before. I would say they are both in the bullshit-department. The C9 in AC is just ridiculous itchy to drive and no way anybody could survive this in a 24h-race, even just driving a 2-hour-doublestint. The GTP-ZX feels a bit arcardy on the other side and have more trouble keeping the Nissan Skyline Group A on the track in the career. Normally this cars should have throttle-mappings to tweak the aggressiveness of your input depending on the track condition or for less or more fuel-consumption. With all the weather and without that feature it seems for me, that the throttle-response is rather weak to control the cars in the worst condition.

                Other than that and generally speaking i would say: AC car-physics with pCars 2 tyre-physics would be far more close to the real thing IMO. There should be no differential-option at all because cars like the Nissan, C9, 962C never had a differential. In AC you need therefore more toe and anything else for more oversteer to get the cars around corners, but unlike pCars 2 they underestimate the grip you get in so light-weight cars with huge tyres. And this brush-model, Ian talked about, opened my eyes regarding the issues i have with this sim and can only be covered with high downforce setups. But pCars 2 have other issues like the AI and less care for details as well.

                Like

                1. I’m pretty sure it was only at Le Mans that the Gr C cars routinely ran spool diffs. The reasons for running a spool at Le Mans?

                  1) Reliability. With a spool, you can make it back to the pits with a broken half-shaft. It’s also a lot simpler in general.

                  2) Paucity of low-speed turns at the circuit.

                  3) Traction at high speed on an undulating public road at 230mph. This was the specific reason given by Lancia for running a spool on their LC2 (don’t ask me how I remember this shit from 35 years ago). The car was *spinning the rears* at over 200mph and causing “instability” (understatement of the century) on the Mulsanne.

                  By the mid-80’s, they had clutch-type LSD’s that were reliable enough for endurance racing but I honestly don’t know to what degree they ran spools at other tracks, of at what point they switched over to LSD’s. Certainly by the time of the XJR-14 and the Peugeot 905, nobody was running spools anymore.

                  Like

                  1. You two know a lot of cool shit.

                    As for Anindo’s comment, it surely feels in PC2 that there is a tire between the steering wheel and the surface, not just a direct connection like in other simulators. netKar Pro, iRacing and rFactor 2 (much less than before) tend to feel like you’re driving numbers, not a car. I think that’s why I like Raceroom so much, it doesn’t feel as raw and direct as the others.

                    Mechanical grip seems to matter more in PC2 and R3E, with a sense of tactile feedback, and that’s something I would expect to feel if it were possible to compare the Lancia you speak of with different types of differential.

                    And can someone tell me how SMS could fuck up the Formula C? From Simraceway, Reiza, Sector 3 to random modders for all sims, the Formula 3 is always the one thing I can go back to, with predictable road feel, power-to-weight ratio, change of direction, etc.

                    Like

                    1. Be sure to try the Jack Spade FFB custom files:

                      http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51628-Jack-Spade-Custom-FFB-Files

                      I used “standard mid compression” with 100% gain, 20-30% volume, 70% tone 50% FX. I bound 2 buttons on the wheel (TM TX 458) to adjust the FFB Volume. I can’t have the same volume across all cars. The FFB ends up way too strong on the high downforce cars if you do that (with these custom FFB files).

                      Anyway, this improved the FFB for me. Now I can really feel what’s going on during corner entry. With these files, the FFB feels very similar to rF2. Try the Merc 190 GrA and you’ll really feel the difference.

                      I agree with you: Raceroom currently has the best FFB overall. There is almost no mental adjustment required to go from a real car to Raceroom. It just works, and I never even think about it.

                      Raceroom + Weather + Modding + Group C = Nirvana.

                      Like

    1. How can you say that for Forza 7? The Studio head of Turn 10 just bought a Ford GT and brought over at the Turn 10’s HQ. This alone tells me that they have the superior and most advanced tire physics, right?

      Like

        1. [UPDATE]
          Microsoft PR reached out to us in regards to this topic, delivering a statement from Turn 10’s Studio Software Architect Chris Tector. You can find it in its entirety below.

          “Forza Motorsport 7 is not limited to running on one core. There seems to have been a miscommunication along the way. “Forza Motorsport 7” uses as many cores as are available on whatever system it runs on, whether that is a 4- to 16-core PC or the 7 cores available on Xbox One.
          Our take”

          We would have been very surprised otherwise, as mentioned in the original story below. Still, if that is the case then the game is presently not running as intended after all, at least on PC, because the stuttering issues and uneven core balance are easily verifiable during the demo.
          Hopefully, the developers can acknowledge this user feedback and fix the issue as soon as possible.

          http://wccftech.com/turn-10-forza-motorsport-7-one-core/amp/

          Like

  22. I did not enjoy the full version of Project Cars 2. I was going to buy it but decided to err on the side of caution and test the Codex version first, which turned out to be a good decision. Apart from a handful of GT3 cars, the driving experience varied from poor to terrible. Inconsistent force feedback (strong in the menus, loose, weak and lazy while driving) did not help, either. How much time did you spend testing this thing altogether, fifteen minutes? I mean, have you even tried driving the Mazda MX5 for a minute? This thing is absolutely terrible, FF does not exist and she spins out of control at the slightest touch of the gas pedal.

    You were quick to criticize most other sims/racing games on the market. Will you dare do the same to PC2?

    I did trust your judgement and I hoped you would help develop PC2 into a truly solid sim. Instead, you got played by Ian Bell like a child. Have fun on the ovals, but I’d take down that livery of yours for the sake of the woeful remains of credibility you may have once possessed.

    Like

        1. What? AC took another month holiday 2 weeks ago and refused to work at all on Xbox One instead crashing to desktop.

          Then they released patch 1.15 and all career progress and saved tunes etc were lost.

          Now the framerate stutters along on many tracks that were ok before.

          The AI are totally unbalanced in career and special event. The pole sitting car disappears off at an unrepresentative pace.

          Button mapping took a year to add and doesn’t work.

          I could go on and on.

          It’ll cause even more angst to the Assetto fan boys to know pcars2 force feedback runs it close.

          Alfa Romeo should have been enough of a warning to everyone abou what happens when a bunch of lazy Italians attempt to design complex electronics.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. Just so you see how bad pcars is that even AC on xbox, with all its problems compared to ps4 and pc, is more enjoyable and realistic for the racing games on xbox one. Maybe forza horizon 3 is more enjoyable.

            Like

            1. it’s an alfa. it will be the best car ever, briefly. it will make your soul smile, and you will feel amazing, then it will break and take most of your wallet. you’ll be mad, until it works again and you get to drive it.
              this cycle will continue until you’re broke, or you die.

              Liked by 1 person

              1. Sounds like my friend’s experience with a Maserati Quattroporte he got for his wife. He didn’t realize the ~$8000 clutch pack had to be replaced as a unit every 5000 miles (same one as in the Ferrari F430 iirc) and was considered a non-serviceable item. This was on a daily driver. After ~$40k in clutch packs and stunning depreciation (along with changing out the many items that broke), he unloaded it.

                They took such a loss on the entire deal that he wasn’t able to get his R35 GTR for 2 years after that. The wife ended up with a (don’t laugh) Taurus SHO that she loved and which was fast, had a killer audio system and was dead reliable.

                Like

          2. I bet it is like a “bunch of lazy italians” who invented the personal computer.
            And that was after a lazy italian invented the microprocessors.
            Italians should be prevented to play with electronics.

            Liked by 1 person

            1. You are good posting on the internet, how about making games? I won’t even say to make a sim, since that’s too much for you, but can you make a good game and sell it well? No? Well, whatever nationality you have must be lazy and dumb.

              Like

    1. You do realise the only MX5 in the whole game is a 1200hp drift missile, no? Of course it’ll oversteer at the slightest touch of the throttle you mongrel.

      Like

  23. It’s not about 1200 BHP. If it’s a drift car then it should react to the gas pedal in such a way that it would enable the driver to perform very precise and delicate manouvers. Power is nothing without control, remember? If you just only barely touch the pedal – barely, remember, not a brick to the floor – and it spins wildly into the wall, then 1,200 BHP or not, it;s a piece of shit. Hell, there’s even this guy who lost both his arms in an accident and drifts professionally with his legs. Drift cars are not machines of ultimate doom if you aren’t an idiot and treat them with respect. I’ve driven an 800 bhp Toyota Supra in real life and it was a perfectly driveable car if you didn’t go bonkers with it. Fuel consumption was more of an issue, though :).
    And actually, the problem is not within the car itself but within the way SMS fucked up the controls and the inputs from controllers. The GT3 cars are more or less OK, but the rest are a random bunch of bigger or smaller shit. Most have very poor forcefeedback, the wheel is loose at the centre and you get little to no response from the car. Sometimes the FF is OK when you leave the pits, but after a lap it weakens. In some cases either the accelerator or the brake pedal react in a binary fashion, ie they ecord either either no input or 100% input.
    I believe this is what happened to the MX5 when I took it for a ride for the first time. Since then I’ve recalibrated the wheel and the pedals and I’ve even been able to drive it in the rain – BTW, it was surprisingly easy in the rain, to be honest. That is, until FF decided to go out for lunch again.

    For now, in terms of driving, PC2 is in a mess. Add to that the hopeless AI drivers and the various graphical glitches and you get what you get. Even those things that it does get right are not particularly spectacular in comparison with its competition.

    OK, the weather effects are nice. But I was hoping for a racing sim, not a weather sim.

    60 euro? No way. I’d rather buy a set of decent spark plugs for my car in RL. In fact, that’s what I’ve just done, with the money orginally allocated for PC2 :).

    Like

    1. Executive Summary:

      “A 1200hp drift car should drive exactly like my brother’s ragged-out 94 Miata. It should require no skill or throttle control. If it requires these things, it’s objectively a total piece of simcade shit.”

      There. I saved everyone a lot of time.

      Like

    2. “Most have very poor forcefeedback, the wheel is loose at the centre and you get little to no response from the car”

      Sounds more like your wheel is broken fam.

      Like

      1. sounds more like your pcars is broken fam

        You whole lot didn’t do a good job, despite all your articles shitting on physics from other sims and simcades except pcars.

        Like

  24. Now that they seem to have improved the physics, it’s really time for SMS to do something about their atrocious sound design – this game sounds no different than the first NFS Shift, which is to say, god awful.

    Like

    1. The game sounds pretty much amazing (somewhere between AC and R3E), but the tire squealing sound is like something out of a kid’s cartoon.

      I mean, it’s so bad that it sounds like either a joke or a temporary placeholder sound that they forgot to replace prior to releasing the game.

      Like

      1. it;s the same tire squealing sound they’ve used in the two previous Forza’s (5,6) so no placeholder as for their engine sound although good you can clearly hear that’s a bit exaggerated and somehow distorted, in cockpit view for example you feel as if there’s no soundproofing and you’re right inside the engine.

        Like

            1. Yet on a properly set up wheel, the ffb and physics of forza 7 still feel more natural than anything in pcars 2..especially in the rain. So much for the hyped up realroad crap…

              Like

                    1. Jack Spade Custom FFB Files for Project CARS 2

                      Back in 2015, WMD community member, Jack Spade introduced his custom Force Feedback tweaker files for the original Project CARS. The Jack Spade tweaks made a huge difference in feel and fidelity of the game’s Force Feedback.

                      Now Jack Spade strikes again and uploaded a set of custom Project CARS 2 Force Feedback settings which should instantly improve your FFB experience. Give it a try.

                      [Source: Official Project CARS 2 Forum]

                      In pCARS 2 individual car tweaker files are no more, so these are global files, one for all cars. The files contain certain wheel specifics
                      like deadzone removal and anti-drag and should be set accordingly to the type of wheel.

                      How to use?

                      Unpack/copy all files into “My Documents/Project CARS 2” folder.
                      Delete the SMS default “ffb_custom_settings” file. (Note, the game automatically creates a new file if none is detected at game start)
                      Activate – relabel your selected one to “ffb_custom_settings”.
                      Start the game and select Custom on the FFB flavor menu.
                      This posting contents 6 different custom files which are based on RAW at 2 stages of game/FFB development.

                      Standard files – with artificial road noise, moderate bumps/curbs/grass response (severely more than the SMS 4 custom preset)
                      Alternative files – no artificial road noise, more bumps/curbs/grass response
                      An important feature of these files are the Compressor settings and the old PC1 Relative Gain stuff, which better balances the forces
                      at all turning angles and driving scenarios and to a certain extent the different types of cars. FFB basically is free of clipping.
                      In PC2 now the compressor works just like the ones in the audio world, severely improves the old Soft Clip.

                      The files:

                      standard low comp.
                      standard mid comp.
                      standard high comp.
                      alternative low comp.
                      alternative mid comp.
                      alternative high comp.
                      Suggested FFB setting: Gain 100, Volume 50, Tone 50, FX 50 ( FX to taste, lower with alternative file)

                      https://mega.nz/#!ipZWAKBB!WkRGNXpGR84IuP4WFdMpiXdcNl2jiUvYRO1825W1oRw

                      FFB is directly derived from physics, there´s no special feature to emphasize over or understeer.

                      Tone – more or less balances Mz/Fy and generally should stay at default 50.
                      FX – controls the level of bumps, curbs, grass, scrub and road noise, level to taste.
                      Gain – always at 100, use Volume to adjust the global FFB level to taste.
                      Checking different files requires a restart of the game each time another file is activated or/and edited, session restart is not enough.

                      Reference – use the Porsche 911 GT3 or McLaren 650S GT3 at Oulton Park and Fuji, these are laser scanned tracks and have the natural road texture and normally
                      don´t require the artificial road noise effect.
                      Silverstone and Imola are non-laser-scanned tracks and are pretty flat and boring maybe, ideal to check what the road noise files do.

                      Note, with the suggested global settings and in combo, with the custom files FFB is severely stronger than with any of the SMS flavors, the alternative
                      files tend to cause oscillation, so always keep your hands on the wheel.

                      Also, note, I decided to disable the “Anti Jolt” feature, due to the degrading side effect it has on the vast majority of cars that are not affected
                      by the issue anyway, to enable delete this “#” in the corresponding lines.

                      Like

  25. No, it was not created with the gamepad in mind. Even with a 360 controller, the car is fucking undrivable, especially the Porsche. It has two states: 100% grip or 0% grip. Also, it has way to much intertia when it spins, like it weights several tons. And the controls are terrible: When counterstearing, the imput is so slow that when the ingame steering is turned to the other side, the car already spinned outof the track.

    I actually don’t understand what they have done: I’ve tryed Forza 5 on Xbox, and was good. I tryed Forza Apex on PC, and it was even better. This game no. Even the GTR, wich should be a car glued to the track, was hard to keep on the track.

    I din’t try it with mi wheel because I know it’s just a sim-arcade, so it should playable fine with a controller. But no. Only good thing, is well optimized, and runs well on my PC that can’t run Project CARS 2. I think I will go back to the old gen Gran Turismo if I want to play a good sim-arcade with a controller…

    Like

    1. “I’ve tryed Forza 5 on Xbox, and was good. I tryed Forza Apex on PC, and it was even better”

      I cant take you seriously if you say such things.

      Like

      1. Why not? I mean, I foundi t enjoyable when I tried them, but never played the full game because, when I wanted to play a sim-arcade with my controller, I always preferred Gran Turismo. I don’t hassle myself in playing such game with a wheel. For that, I’ve got sims on my PC.

        Like

  26. This article is a diversion from pcars2. Not long after the pcars2 review this one was released and has remained as the latest one for much longer.

    Pcars2 review on 18th, and forza 7 DEMO review just two days later on 20th. So 5 days this article for the demo of forza has been on. Basically it keeps people focused on the “problems” of forza instead of the problems and failures of pcars2.

    No worries, people are using racedepartment and AC forums to tell how really pcars2 is.

    >No guys, I’m not biased for pcars2 and sms. All those other games are so bad and they need to be discussed more. – James
    Wait, you receive money from sms, I already have my answer then.

    Like

      1. Everything has to be a question? It’s more like a statement. Sorry if I hurt your bf’s feelings, is still true.

        Barely any article about pcars2 all the year, then he does the “most important one” and quickly puts another on top about the fucking demo of forza hehe. To cover the focus from people reviewing pcars2 and going for forza. Oldest trick in Ian’s book.

        He made a lot of articles shitting on gran turismo sport Beta and did one positive article on pcars2 beta. Now again quickly trying to make people shift the focus from pcars2 and focus on another game’s problems.

        I bet there won’t be a pcars2 article screenshoting the negative reviews and agreeing with them. Like it happened with all the other sims James made articles on. Diversion diversion diversion, manipulation too.

        Like

        1. “Wait, you receive money from sms, I already have my answer then.”
          Implies a question.

          What negative reviews? The reviewers are less critical than the paid shill, ahah.

          Like

  27. My thoughts exactly about the demo – which was not quite a demo, but rather a poorly disguised long-running boring ad. Deleted it after a few minutes. A ridiculous two-lap race with cars that can be tuned and barely remain on track will not help Forza sales.

    But then you go on to say “I would like to know why a monolithic company with hundreds of employees are shipping a game with default steering wheel settings that are completely unusable and might be the source of several refunds for the more casual racers among us”, so I had to wonder. what would be your thoughts about this: https://youtu.be/4OfoUsAJvpg. This is what invariably happens when you fire up Project Cars 2 on the Xbox One with a G920 wheel. The game is broken on launch. The developers have acknowledged the issue and promised a fix (date still uncertain), but is this an acceptable behavior according to your standards?

    Liked by 1 person

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